Help Choosing The Tsuba

[javier]

Hi colleagues

 

A few years ago I bought a nice Yamato Tegai Katana mounted in a koshirae.

 

The fuchi, kashira and menukis belong to the same design (shakudo, waves and a family mon that from my beginner eye looks similar to the takeda mon)

 

It also has a nice and small iron tsuba that I was looking forward to replace if I find a new one that matchs wih the rest of the fittings.

 

Surfing on the wave I was able to find two tsubas that according to my begginer eye might be in a similar design to the rest of the fittings but I was looking forward to have the opininion of more Knowledgeable colleagues.

 

Both tsubas are in a similar prince range but above that what I am trying to accomplish is to find a tsuba that fits in the period and style of the koshirae.

 

I am attaching pictures of the koshirae and also of the two tsubas from the web. If someone has another candidate please let me know.

 

And finally any information about the koshirae will be highly regarded!

 

Best regards

Javier

[Alex A]

Hi Javier, nice Koshirae.

 

The first thing that sprung to mind is the old saying, if it aint broke, don't fix it. I say this because even small variations in tsuba dimensions can have you messing around with seppa/habaki/tsuba (really shouldn't with a good one) to make it all fit good. 

 

Difficult to see, but appears your sword has no need for a tsuba with hitsu-ana, so in that case, I would look for a tsuba with no hitsua-ana. That way, looks less cobbled together, in my humble opinion.

 

I like the tsuba you have picked out, just find something along the same lines, without hitsua-ana or plugged hitsu-ana.

 

Does not necessarily need to be waves, lots of options. 

 

Just my thoughts, hope that helps

 

 

Best

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello Javier,

 

For a katana the tsuba should be at least 3 inches, iron or shakudo. My guess would be Mito for the waves.

[Stephen]

If it was from Aoi Art its likely not org tsuba to koshi

 

 

edit   forgot to add,  the latter tsuba.  if it fits and no filing or extra seppa needed

Edited June 12, 2017 by Stephen

[PhoenixDude]

Flip a coin, the side you secretly WANT the coint lo land on is your answer. buy it.

[mywei]

I think that the plain tsuba looks quite nice on the koshirae imo. Sometimes less is more as they say.

[b.hennick]

You will probably buy a tsuba and find that it does not fit. Then what? I suggest buying one at a show where you can fit it to the blade. 

[Leporello]

Hi Javier,

 

as a hunter for tsuba and tosogu I have to agree with Barry to 100%!

Having played ´Tsuba-Tetris´ with my more than 30 koshirae and several koshirae of my collecting comrades for many times my experience is that even if the size should be correct, dozens of tsuba might look awful when mounted. But next time there is the ´one-and-only´ tsuba, which fits accidentally perfect to the koshirae and the blade, as if it would have been mounted originally since hundreds of years. The point is: You really have to try that by mounting the tsuba!!! Best chance: A sword show or any collector with many tsuba to test the size, form, material, colour, motive ...

 

Good luck

[javier]

Thank you all for your valuable answers and wise advice!

 

I was not aware that choosing a difference tsuba for a koshirae was not a plug and play process.

 

Javier

[Jean]

3 inches for a katana tsuba is western standard, I have seen a lot of katana koshirae with tsuba under 3 inches. There is no written rules AFAIK.

 

https://www.aoijapan.com/daisho-tsuba-iwamoto-konju-wakamizu

 

I had a Tsunahiro katana in hitatsura in koshirae with a tsuba of 7,2 cm.

 

Same applies for wakizashi. I have seen wakizashi koshirae with tsuba larger than 3 inches.

 

Have a look at this very nice daisho tsuba, you will see that the dai tsuba is barely above 3 inches and the sho not too far from the 3 inches

 

In the same way, I have seen daisho swords with the dai being a O wakizashi..

[Alex A]

Repeating whats been said before here, but there was a fashion for putting small tsuba on katana at the end of the Muromachi period. Seen a few small  late Muromachi  tsuba with Katana sized Nakago-ana over the last few years.

[nagamaki - Franco]

3 inches for a katana tsuba is western standard, I have seen a lot of katana koshirae with tsuba under 3 inches. 

 

 

 

Western standard? I didn't know there is/was a western standard?

 

Yes, there are plenty of examples of katana with tsuba shy of 3".

 

Let's take a step back here and ask, Javier could you please show additional images of the tsuba with the seppa that came with the koshirae, and also ask for the fuchi dimensions to get a better idea of what's going on? 

 

Thank you.

[Jean]

Franco wrote:

"For a katana the tsuba should be at least 3 inches, iron or shakudo."

 

 

Yes, Franco, I think these are Western standards. There is the same thing in France and probably in Europe stating that Katana size tsuba are over 7,5 cm but I have never found a Japanese source stating what must be the size of Katana/wakizashi tsuba as there is for Katana/wakizashi length.

 

Katana size tsuba price being superior to wakizashi's perhaps these standards have been established by tsuba collectors and not nihonto or koshirae collectors

[javier]

Hi Franco

 

I am attaching a few pictures I am not sure if I was able to fulfill your request.

 

Javier

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello Javier, 

 

Fuchi dimensions, and sword length por favor? 

 

 

Thank you.

[Guido]

If I see a tsuba online I’m interested in mounting, I do a 1:1 printout, cut it out, and put it on the sword/koshirae – at least that gives me a good idea about the overall balance; I wouldn’t be too concerned about above or below 3”, that’s just a (very) rough guideline, although about 8 cm usually look best on katana.

 

Although I, too, don’t like to buy a tsuba without having the opportunity to actually put it on the sword, I took that risk recently when I bought one from Eric of Owazamono. I was looking for a plain, polished shakudō tsuba for the longest time to complete a banzashi katana-koshirae. As one can see from the photo, it’s an absolute perfect fit (though the tsuka looks longer than it actually is due to the angle I took the photo at):

 

[Marius]

Javier,

 

You are trying to assemble a set - tsuba with waves combined with waves fuchigashira. While I like your waves tsuba, your approach is doubtful from the point of view of aesthetics and contrary to how most koshirae were put together (I am not talking about the formal koshirae of the Tokugawa period). You might want to acquire this excellent book from Grey:

 

http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/books/b734-uchigatana-koshirae-translation-tokyo-national-museum

[javier]

Thank you all for your valuable advice!

 

I decided that I am not going to move forward with the tsuba change unless I can try one on the blade before the purchase, however I am interested in the discussion and learning opportunity around this topic that´s why I am providing the addiitonal imformation requested by Franco.

 

Fuchi: 3,7cm x 2cm x 1cm

 

Tsuka including fuchi and Kashira: 24cm

 

Blade Information (from the dealer)

 

Blade length : 64.4 cm or 25.35 inches.
Sori : 0.8 cm or 0.31 inches.
Mekugi : 3
Width at the hamachi : 2.66 cm or 1.04 inches.
Width at the Kissaki : 1.81 cm or 0.71 inches.
Kasane : 0.56 cm or 0.22 inches.

Koshirae :
Tsuba : Round shape iron Tsuba.
Fuchikashira : Shakudo, family crest and waves are engraved.
Saya : Black Roiro Saya.
Menuki : ShakudoKatana in Koshirae (NBTHK Tokubetsu Kicho paper)

 

 

Javier

[Valric]

It's tricky. I too tried have ventured down that road and I learned the hard way. 

 

Fushi, Saya entrance and Tsuba need to match in size, otherwise it looks off and you'll need a very good craftsmen to make it all fit, which means custom seppas, plugging hitsu-ana depending on the setup, etc. It's going to be expensive because you don't want some amateur to go digging into your nice tsuba. It's very hard to find a matching theme AND matching proportions, and matching makers on top of it become nearly impossible. I went for a gempei war goto/kyo-kinko set and it took a very long time to find matching pieces, then having it adjusted, etc. Over a year and a half. If the Tsuba doesn't fit, you will need to place sekigane inside otherwise it will wobble and feel like some mish-mashed souvenir shop piece.

 

Restoring Koshirae is going to put you in red when the time to resell comes. What you like isn't what the guy next door likes, and Tosogu/Nihonto collectors are somewhat of a different bunch. Chances are, after a few swaps, by the time it reaches a dealer he will tear the thing down and sell the pieces individually as it is more financially sound depending on the value of the fittings. The only circumstance in which it is economically viable if it you're dealing with a truly high-end sword and hire top-end artisans, then its cherry on the cake, both aesthetically and financially. 

 

It's really a labor of love and an exercise in patience, but it's also the occasion to learn a whole lot about tosogu. It's also one of those things where unforeseen issues arise in the process, things you never even imagined could be a problem. And finally it is eye-opening, as you realize that most Koshirae on the market that are bundled with mid-range swords have been stripped of any interesting pieces that could be sold separately for a premium. I recall Darcy saying that there are only 55 juyo and above Daisho Koshirae, a tiny amount compared to all individual pieces that are rated as high - that alone gives you an idea of the economic incentives at play... 

 

However, its undeniably fun to be perpetually on the lookout for that perfect missing Tosogu. If you're lucky and live in the US, you can take your sword to a show and play Tetris...  

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello Javier,

 

The past day's research on tsuba size has revealed that there are many factors that should be considered in choosing a tsuba , ranging from blade size and length, to koshirae style and school, to tsuba material. In general, although there will be exceptions, a katana calls for a katana size tsuba. On average that falls from 7.5 cm to 8 cm ...  https://archive.org/stream/japaneseswordmou16guns#page/32/mode/2up/search/katana+tsuba+

 

I spoke with a friend who focuses on collecting and studying old original koshirae who supports these numbers to be the case, with exceptions.

 

In your case, before making any change I would talk to someone well experienced that can accurately identify the rest of your koshirae, and then research that information. 

 

It might be interesting to begin a new topic asking owners of "original koshirae" to post style/school and dimensions.

 

Shibui swords has quite a bit written on tsuba http://www.shibuiswords.com/tsuba.htm

 

Hope this is helpful.

Edited June 24, 2017 by nagamaki - Franco