Ken-Hawaii Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Jason, sorry, but Steve is a swordsmith himself, & I actually own one of his very nicely-made blades. None of us claim to be experts, although there are a few who would qualify. And please remember that we're simply giving you our best opinions, which you should winnow through to pick out what you personally consider to be important. If your blade was in good-enough condition, I would recommend sending it to shinsa, which is the best way to get a definitive opinion...but it's not. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 If there was anything fake about this sword, then I'm sure it would have been called out by multiple people on this forum and others by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Sanders Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Jason... let me get this straight: You bought the sword with the belief that it was a fake (repro) You cut paper with it and then believed it might be genuine You took pics and received opinions Now you are insulting those that support your ORIGINAL ASSUMPTION all of the opinions you have received say more or less "Your mileage may vary" All of the opinions say.., take it to someone that knows, that can hold it in his hands As Nike says. "Just do it!" Steve... from the initial pics, it seems the entire sword has a worn, uniform cast to it. Maybe it is as was said... it was rode hard and put away wet I think we all are of the same opinion.... we don't know and can only guess based on the information that you have provided 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg F Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Hello Jason, Weather you appreciate a reply or not there is no need to call somebody an idiot, its unnecessary. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Anyway its your first Japanese sword and as long as you can enjoy it then thats what is important. Cheers. Greg 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagamaki - Franco Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Jason, Name calling was completely uncalled for, a better response would have been to ask Steve to explain his thoughts. We are all here to learn, n'est ce pas. Often when it comes to nihonto study the greatest learning occurs when we stop to consider that which is being overlooked. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 Well said Franco and Greg, afraid this ol fart would have been a bit more blunt. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 (I think) it is impossible to accurately gauge anything, particularly swords and furniture, from photographs. That said, the opinions of board members was solicited by the OP; I offered mine. I am not nearly as experienced and educated on Nihonto as many of the distinguished members of this board, many of whom are recognized experts in the field. I have appreciated Nihonto from near and far for about 40 years; have cultivated my skills as a blade smith and polisher for 10 years. In my previous life, had a lot to do with heavy metal (military equipment) maintenance, failure analysis and corrosion control. I have seen a fair number of swords that purport to be other than what they are; still, i am no expert nor can i make a definitive call based on photos. I can say that whatever is evident in a photo will be more evident in hand. Has the nakago been cleaned? The nakago shows wear of the patina on the raised edges that in addition to the patina on the blade as well as the fittings that give me the impression of forced patina, i.e. induced rusting. The tsuba looks out of place with the rest of the koshirae. The habaki seems made by a craftsman with little eye for detail. The sori seems excessive for the seeming amount of apparent shortening based on the nakagoana. Is it perhaps saiha? (retempered after a fire or other issue.) Call me an idiot if you will, but those are my thoughts. PS it looks great for cutting paper and other things with, but your investment may suffer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Posted October 29, 2016 Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 PS I have a Hanwei reproduction sword that is very sharp; I double cut a hanging 3/4 poly rope with an upward/downward kesagiri with ease......sharpness is the least thing to consider in gauging the authenticity of a sword. Few Nihonto owners would actually use their nihonto for cutting. PPS Pay for shipping and insurance both ways, and I will put a window polish on it for you for free so that you can further evaluate your sword. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2016 I hope you find it entertaining. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Well it was entertaining; a bit off thread perhaps. Is that your response to my thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 I don't hold grudges against anyone. Your latest comments were informative. I can appreciate that. Perhaps you just didn't have enough time to explain yourself the last time. Thank you for your post. I'll try not to be insulting to anyone else on the forum. But.......if they piss me off....they get name called. Haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken-Hawaii Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Jason, if you're going to name-call, do it via PM, not on the forum for everyone to read. Otherwise, you won't be the first member that Brian has banned! We're all polite here, even if we disagree. Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 maturity please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Love my posse...... What they said. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenVK Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 PPS Pay for shipping and insurance both ways, and I will put a window polish on it for you for free so that you can further evaluate your sword. A very generous offer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortis Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 PPS Pay for shipping and insurance both ways, and I will put a window polish on it for you for free so that you can further evaluate your sword. Indeed. I don't know much, but I know enough that I would take him up on that in a heartbeat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 I am curious as to how much you paid and where you purchased this sword? Perhaps at a gun show or other such venue? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 I purchased the sword at a local swap meet that I frequent. I usually go searching for older military items (equipment, uniforms etc...) from the WW1-WW2 era. I have an extensive collection and several nice displays. A knife (Buckmaster 184) drew my attention to a table. They have become desirable knives since the mid 1980's when they were produced mfor a short period. The woman wanted $50 for it which I gladly paid for without haggling with her. As I was getting ready to leave I noticed the sword on the table mixed in with a bunch of other misc items. I asked her what she wanted for it. She said $20. I didn't even pull the blade from the sheath to look at it. I just paid her the $20 and off I went. I figured it had to be some sort of reproduction. I didn't really care for that price. I just wanted the sword to put with a Japanese display I am working on. When I got home, I inspected the sword a bit closer, and it just seemed too good for a reproduction. I was expecting a dull blade, as you would expect to find on one of those really cheap imitation swords sold at gift shops. I determined that it could very well be an older blade of at least the WW2 era, and that I should have someone look at it. I haven't had any luck getting a response from anyone out here in SoCal who could inspect it firsthand. I realize that pictures (especially mine) could make it difficult to see what I'm seeing in person. Being that you are a bladesmith and you are in good standing with others on this forum, I would gladly mail my sword to you and accept your generous offer to polish the blade. This will also give you a chance to inspect the sword in it's entirety and provide some feedback (good, bad or ugly) to the rest of the members of the board. All I need is your address, and I'll send it out tomorrow. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken-Hawaii Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 Good choice, Jason, even if Steve isn't exactly next door. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 To be clear, my offer was for a window polish, not a full polish, which is a much more extensive endeavor. A window polish is a small area on one side which allows the underlying steel structures to be properly examined, and allows decisions to be made regarding shinsa (formal examination by experts) further polishing, etc. if warranted. My reason for this offer, which will involve some considerable effort on my part, as well as about $150 or so in postal fees on your part, is to let you know if you have a treasure in the rough or something else; also to let you know (with some skin in the game) that my observations were not for the purpose of taking anything away from you or just taking potshots. I do have to say that even with a window opened, it may still be difficult for anyone to say definitively what your sword is, but it will be easier than it is currently to hazard a guess. I am game if you are; I will send you a PM with my contact info. PM with contact info sent; it should be said that for the price of less than a Buck knife you are ahead of the game already, but the chances of it being a national treasure for $20 is fairly small 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Posted October 30, 2016 Report Share Posted October 30, 2016 I am having difficulty finding a mei that matches in any of my references; if anyone can assist I will appreciate it. No match in Sesko, and found nothing in Nagayama or Yumoto thus far. Thanks, Steve edit: there are some listings in Sesko but they did not match this mei. Further checking: Nihonto Club has a Hawley's listing TOM 458 that might fit. Doing more looking. Any help appreciated. Trying to verify the work of Tomoie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Looking now for an oshigata of Hawley TOM 458, if anyone has a lead.....thanks much. Also looking for photographs of this Tomoie's work; thanks again. I am coming up with a lot, just nothing useful (thanks Google!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I see you have been putting in some time trying to find some information on TOMOIE. I don't have any references myself, and anything that comes up utilizing search engines is written in Kanji. Hopefully someone has pictures of his work. A couple of people have mentioned that the blade has more curve in it that they thought. Maybe that would be an indication of a particular sword smith and could potentially help identify who the maker is down the road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Sword curvature is more of an indicator of the period it was made than the smith who made it; kind of like clothes are.....how they are used and fashion to some degree. Sometimes swords have what seems to be a LOT of curvature, then we try to figure out why. The swords don't always tell us though. Google wanted to tell me all about Tommie, though...... I am hopeful that someone will have an oshigata and/or photographs of an authenticated Tomoie, but there seems to have been several different signatures and from neighboring fiefs as well. Anything is a start, but there are few guarantees even if the sword came with a paper. (Many hours of study later) difficult to find definitive information on the specific mei fragment, although the Fujiwara Takada school was doing great things down in Kyushu. Saw some VERY impressive swords from the Koto time frame. I have not found any references for a smith named Tomoie beyond the Hawley TOM 458 who signed in the specified format, but am not limiting my search to him/them; I am looking for any smith/school who used the format. No bingo yet, just Bungo (a little provincial humor ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronos Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 This smith is not really renowned or prolific enough to have much chance of finding oshigata outside of the NBTHK so it may be much more fruitful once the window is done to observe if the workmanship matches what one would expect from this region/time period. Just my humble thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROKUJURO Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Jason,sorry that we could not satisfy your expectations for a precise KANTEI via photos. But I will give you a valuable advice for future purchases of blades: NEVER touch it with bare hands! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 I appreciate the efforts everyone has put fort in trying to identify the blade. I am going to box this thing up and send it to Steve today for further evaluation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 Sword is enroute to Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted October 31, 2016 Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 JUST for clarification, this is Steve doing a window on a showato, as nice of a guy as Steve is hes not a trained togi and were not endorsing polishing other than what hes doing for a newbie. Ive had Emails on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywifesgunakillme Posted October 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2016 What makes you refer to the blade as Showato? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts