Gunto Repair Teams

[Bruce Pennington]

finished reading Kapp & Yoshihara, "Modern Japanese Swords and Swordsmiths, From 1868 to the Present" and came across an interesting discussion of gunto repair teams:

 

"...so many smiths and sword craftsmen were sent overseas to battlefields to repair and maintain swords. ... Kurihara organized a group of sword craftsmen that included smiths, polishers, and koshirae craftsmen, to go to the wartime battlefiedls to repair swords on the spot. The group was called the Gunto Shuri Genchi Hoshidan (the Volunteer Gunto Repair Group), founded in 1936. Kurihara's original plan called for five to seven smiths in each group. A group was to consist of twenty people and include polishers, tsukamaki (hilt wrapping) craftsmen, and other. Theoretically, each person would work on ten swords a day, but they had to remain at each location far longer than planned and often worked on more than the original quota."

 

I thought it interesting that so many gunto needed repair! I wonder to what level of quality the repair was. Did koshirae have to meet IJA spec? Or might it look like some of the odd-ball stuff we see on these forums?

 

Anyone have more info on the repair teams and the work they did?

[AMERICAN-FALCONER]

I'm looking for the Gunto Shuri Genchi Hoshidan to do a house call on a sick Type 35 Copper Hilt Shin Gunto. It's not very ill but has looseness in the hilt. Does the Hoshidan have any repair techniques that I myself could possibly perform or is there a master repairman out there?

[Bruce Pennington]

Randy,

 

Could you post some picks of the handle and hand-guard so we can take a look?

[Bruce Pennington]

Ok Randy try this website for wood: http://www.ryujinswords.com/saya.htm

 

Also, a friend says he has gone to boat shops to get magnolia wood.

[Kai-Gunto]

I would never change the tsuka/wood unless its rotten.

Live with it, IMO.

[Bruce Pennington]

I agree, but I'm wondering just how loose are you talking about Randy? Have you taken the handle off yet? Is it so loose that maybe the wood liner has been removed by a previous owner? If it's just a little wiggly, a few of mine are that way, and I just accept it as the wood has dried and shrunken over the lay 70 years.

[Bruce Pennington]

Got a nice addition to the Gunto Repair discussion fron Nick Komiya, Warrelics forum: "You will find a fair number of documents in the archives by using 軍刀修理 as a search word.

These teams were sent out in groups of 10 or 20 to various destinations overseas from 1939.

After they finished their term of 6 months, they were offered employment by the army and even supported for local settlement should they wish to open shop abroad for the service they provided. Thus it appears only about half of them returned home after the mission, judging by the reports about their return. They also issued a detailed repair manual, but I do not know whether it can be found in the archives, sorry.

The mission statement for these repair teams says their purpose was primarily repair of external fittings, not the blades.

Last edited by nick komiya; 10-04-2016 at 02:36 PM."

[Brian]

Nick has always been a gold mine of info. Please extend our thanks to him.

[Bruce Pennington]

Two great threads posted by Guy at Warrelics on:

Theater-made Gunto - The gunto repair team did not have their own swords, so they made blades from auto springs!

and

Naruse Kanji -- Shuriken, Swordsmanship .... and Sword Repair - a brief bio of one of the repair team members.

[vajo]

Bruce but these swords would not have hamon and hada.

[Dave R]

55 minutes ago, vajo said:

Bruce but these swords would not have hamon and hada.

 

 But they would cut like hell. Source.. http://ohmura-study.net/209.html  and in a battle, that was what mattered.

[vajo]

Dave i know what a Sunobe Blade is. If they cut good, bad or better than nihonto is not very important.

All these terms describe non-traditional swords (Sunobe) in Japan.

 

SHOWA-TO
GUNTO
MURATA-TO
TANREN-TO
HAN-TAN-TO
MANTETSU-TO
SHIN-NIHONTO (i was often stumbled about this description but it describes a sword what was made from modern steel - not Tamahagene)
SPRING-TO

 

I hope the listing is complete. 😃

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, vajo said:

If they cut good, bad or better than nihonto is not very important.

Chris, you are right about the hamon, but you'll notice in the article that they were making them "for self protection," so they weren't concerned about the art.  They were simply making weapons.

[Baka Gaijin]

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/sunobe.html

😎

[Dave R]

3 hours ago, vajo said:

Dave i know what a Sunobe Blade is. If they cut good, bad or better than nihonto is not very important.

All these terms describe non-traditional swords (Sunobe) in Japan.

 

SHOWA-TO
GUNTO
MURATA-TO
TANREN-TO
HAN-TAN-TO
MANTETSU-TO
SHIN-NIHONTO (i was often stumbled about this description but it describes a sword what was made from modern steel - not Tamahagene)
SPRING-TO

 

I hope the listing is complete. 😃

 

 

 

 Have a look at the heading of this part of the forum.... 

"Military Swords of Japan
For the discussion and identification of non-traditionally made Japanese military swords 1876-1945"

[vajo]

1 hour ago, Dave R said:

 

 Have a look at the heading of this part of the forum.... 

"Military Swords of Japan
For the discussion and identification of non-traditionally made Japanese military swords 1876-1945"

 

Which sword we discuss or find out? 

[16k]

Spring steel (9260/5160), no Hamon but cutting extremely well and being highly resistant, is still a favorite among tameshigiri practitioners today. It is highly recommended to beginners because it’s extremely difficult to break ona bad cutting angle, so no surprise the IJA spoke highly of it.

[Bruce Pennington]

47 minutes ago, vajo said:

Which sword we discuss or find out? 

The one in the article I posted at the beginning. We don’t have one in hand, it was just mentioned in the repair team story.

[vajo]

So any one knows a sword from wartime period which was made from spring steel? This a pure hypothetical discussion. You will not find such a sword in Japan today. All sunobe blades are forbidden by law in Japan.

[16k]

Haven’t seen one. However, I’ve always wondered whether NCO swords weren’t made of spring still. Sturdy, no Hamon, no one really seems to know from what steel they were made of... could fit the bill!

[Shamsy]

Ultimately, I cannot really imagine how we would ever differentiate there swords from the dozens of 'island swords' that we have seen. Is there any real way to tell? Was there a stamp, an engraving, a particular 'pattern' proved commonality? It looks like there is little info so doubt we will ever find out, but I would dearly love to know.

[Bruce Pennington]

1 hour ago, Shamsy said:

Ultimately, I cannot really imagine how we would ever differentiate there swords from the dozens of 'island swords' that we have seen. Is there any real way to tell? Was there a stamp, an engraving, a particular 'pattern' proved commonality? It looks like there is little info so doubt we will ever find out, but I would dearly love to know.

That’s exactly what I was thinking about when I read this Steve! Between this kind of blade and POW made blades, it makes me soften my approach to questionable Swords when they show up.

[Dave R]

I would suggest that the repair team swords would be much better made than the others mentioned, we are talking about a bunch of professionals in the trade here. 

[vajo]

Dave that could be or not. 

[16k]

I agree with Dave. This wasn’t the first time that swordsmiths followed the Japanese armies in their conquests. It happened in the Sengoku Jidai too. Those were skilled guys. I doubt they would have sent bad swordsmiths.

[vajo]

JP i never saw a sword made by a ww2 field smith. And i never saw a sword made by a ww2 field smith from spring steel. Its a nice story. But only a story that is not proofen. 

[Bruce Pennington]

And without a reputable story along with a blade, we'll never now for sure.  The article's author complimented the team member doing the smithing, so he likely did good work.  I was simply intrigued by the confirmation that sword-stuff was being made in the field.  Still tempers my thoughts when I see something a bit off on a guy's sword.  I'm more likely to give something the benefit of the doubt, now, as to it's legitimacy.  Yes, most of the fakery is pretty clear, but it's the odd-balls that make me wonder.

[vajo]

I know what you mean Bruce. But next time anyone came with a crude made sword which we discuss as fake or island made and he brings the story that sword was captured bei G.I. Joe from a Japanese field smith who cuts the platoon machinegun in two pieces and shows a report written by captain Joe who said it is all true... 😂

[Dave R]

5 hours ago, vajo said:

Dave that could be or not. 

 

There is absolutely no doubt but that they were professionals in the field, that's why they were sent out there! ... So where are these swords,.... at the bottom of the bay, or with their families, or totally indistinguishable from any other Showato gunto!

 Given that there is documentation for these swords being made and the expertise of the craftsmen,  I am a little puzzled as to what point you are trying to make. 

[16k]

7 minutes ago, Dave R said:

 

 or totally indistinguishable from any other Showato gunto!

This is the thing that gives me pause! A spring still sword CANNOT be tempered with a Hamon. All the officers' Gunto I’ve seen had a real Hamon... unless they were made of special steel and the Hamon had to be etched. Then again, you can easily spot an etched Hamon. This is why I wonder whether those famous spring steel swords aren’t our very obvious NCO Gunto...