Mei help please

[Mark Green]

Hi Gang,

A friend of mine pulled this out of the attic.

Nice big late period sword in WW2 mounts.

Great hamon. very long kissaki 4"

Is this the Sadakane of the Sadakazu school?

Is it Sadakane?

 

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f380/ ... edited.jpg

 

Mark G

[Grey Doffin]

The mei reads, "Inouye Shinkai". He was a big name in early Shinto times, so gimei is always a possibility. Good luck. Grey

[Mark Green]

Wow, I think that is right. I have found some mei copies. It looks very, very close. I will see if I can get some better pics.

This sword looks very untouched. It is in a wartime shiny polish, but the hamon is almost flame like.

Thanks Gray, Mark

[Rich T]

on that image, I would think this very gimei. The mei looks to have too many differences to me, there appears to be no vidsible yasurime ( strong on Shinaki work ) It also should have a kiku mon ( in the majority of cases I think ) on the ura.

 

jmho

 

Rich

[Stephen]

of the sugata and close ups of the blade should tell us, as of now i agree with RT not looking very close in the mei Dept.

[Bungo]

that brings to mind my " double trouble ".............

 

one side signed Shinkai, the other side Tadatsune.

 

joint work, you say ?

ummmmmmmmmmm, one is shinto smith, the other is shinshinto, what's the chance of they having a time machine ?

And it begs the question............... if the gimei was meant to deceive, then why two gimei of different time period ?

two negatives equal one positive ? Where's the mathematician of the board, Brian ......you are good in math I recall.

 

milt THE ronin

[Bungo]

also my new 2GB mem. card does not fit the old card reader I have plugged to the computer..........

 

still have to " install " the cd that comes with the D-80, but some pics should be ready in a weeks or so......

 

my " double trouble " was slightly bent, but the artist Mr. Bowen of the NTHK ( NPO group ) brought over for demonstration corrected the bent a few years ago.............. it was a nerve wrecking experience.

 

The sword looks koto ( according to some advance sword dudes ), signed shinto and shinshinto......... I call it my " sword of all time ". A very " curious " sword and I don't intend to have the mei's removed.

 

Milt THE ronin

[Brian]

Nope. 2 Negatives clearly equals a double negative in this case.

Your sword has an identity crisis, and clearly needs professional help..just like it's owner :D

Split it carefully down the middle, and then you will have 2 nice wall display pieces with different mei.

 

Brian

[paulb]

how about made by one and shortened or re-tempered by another?

seen other swords that have two signatures where one was the original smith the second the person who modified it.

Just a train of thought

[Mark Green]

I only had a chance to look at this sword for a short while. The pics he sent me are not good.

At firts glance I thought shin-shin or gendi. It looks like it has had one polish. It is in a shiny ww2 polish common for what you see on WW2 swords. It is very thick likely 8mm +, and has a huge kissaki. Not common for the time. If it is a shinkai, it was maybe custom made to look like it does. What I could see of the hamon looked great. a very bright Yakiba, of flamelike gunome. very powerful.

I hope to get a better look this weekend.

It has a date as well. The pic is goobed, I will try to clean it up and send it on

[Mark Green]

here is the date. It does not show good file marks, and has no mon.

Fun puzzle.

 

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f380/ ... edited.jpg

 

 

Mark

[Nobody]

This is a Tanto made by Inoue Shinkai (井上真改) in 1675 (延宝三年).

 

 

 

Ref. http://www.nona.dti.ne.jp/~sword/hpbs%2 ... hinkai.htm

[Mark Green]

I can't see many file marks on that?

And no mon as well. Looks like a bunch of examples in Fuji's.

Most of them look a bit off in many ways.

No telling. I look forward to getting a better look at it.

Let ya'll know what I find.

He said that a Japanese General, gave it to and Amarican General, who gave it to his father, another General.

Ya never know. Mark

[Rich T]

Lets look at a better rez image

 

 

The pixelation on Koichi's version was terrible ( no offence Koichi san ) but this is a lot better. Yasurime is pretty clear.

 

As to the mon, well, I said I though it was a common thing but not sure. I still think the mei looks off, look at the left side of the last kanji, Kai. It is very boxy as all the version I have are. The one you have supplied looks narrow and appears to be missing the bottom stroke.

 

Also, one thing Cary Condell taught me years ago was, when looking at a mei with nenki, on both the sword and veryfied document copy, always go to the neki first, 99% of people who forged mei spent a lot more time on the signature than the date. You'll find most of your clues there.

 

Also, don't just rely on Fujishiro's, go to Kanzan Sato's books and the Shinto Meikan for a lot mnore variations.

 

Thus the waffle endeth :-)

 

Cheers

 

Rich

[Mark Green]

I think my guys mei is way off Rich. Although Shinkai's mei changed a bunch over time, there were still many things that stayed the same.

Plus the sword does not look shinto at all. At first glance, I said Shin-shin or newer.

That is why I thought it was the 1920's guy.

It is made in the shape of a sword from 1350 or so. BIG kissaki, wide body, nice sori. Very nice to look at. But looks as though it has never been outside. And not polished, more than once or twice.

It doesn't make much reason that someone would gemei this mei on it though. But I have seen worst.

We shall see more this weekend I hope.

Mark

[Rich T]

that Kamakura and Nambokucho swords were very popular to copy in the shinshinto period, especially after 1800 with Masahide's kado.

 

Rich

[Bungo]

here's the pics

[Bungo]

final try