Fake Type 95 Nco Swords

[Brian]

Very very fake

[Bruce Pennington]

3 hours ago, Ironheade71 said:

Greetings from Switzerland

Greetings to you, too, Marcus!  Welcome to the NMB.  Sorry your arrival had to meet bad news.  Like Paul said, your sword has literally all the signs we look for in a fake.

 

If you haven't already explored Ohmura's fabulous website, it's a free education on what Japanese gunto really look like with over 65 pages of excellent examples: http://ohmura-study.net/900.html

 

You can also see examples of fakes at NMB's page HERE.

[11HDVETUSARMY82nd]

On 6/23/2016 at 4:55 AM, Shamsy said:

Hi all,

while I'm sure our members know how to pick a fake NCO, I wanted to share these.

http://mountcastlesantiques.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=277

http://mountcastlesantiques.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=276&zenid=qot0424cgushvekob07rapkkq2

The really disappointing part is that I informed the site owner about the first sword and provided a comprehensive list of indicators the sword is not genuine. I offered to send photos or provide opinions from experienced collector's. After that I heard nothing. Today I checked, just in case the sword was pulled from sale, and lo and behold there is a 'rare copper handle' now listed, clearly of the same manufacturer. Truly disappointing.

Not sure what the link or links were meant to show but now it’s a credit card app and gold sellers site also leading to a computer site of some sort ?? 

[Shamsy]

It is the eventual dating of links and removal of listing's that has prompted us to collect images here as opposed to early on when I shared links.

 

The images already in this thread probably cover all the older or more 'classic' fakes, which would have been listed in that original link. 

[ZachClark]

Hello all,

 

I think I made a bad decision. Not sure if this is real or fake. It seems like at least the sheath was repainted. Can you guys help point me in the right direction. thanks.

[Kiipu]

Hi Zach, that is a nice looking Type 95 Military Sword made by Suya.  @Shamsy & @Stegel will need to look at the scabbard color though.  How would you describe the scabbard color when using the "Mark 1" eyeball?

[Stegel]

Hi Zach,

If by “bad” decision you mean that you think it is a fake, then rest assured- it is 100% genuine as Kippu has more or less said.

The scabbard colour appears to be the red bean colour to me, but it looks like paint near the hanger, or is the paint rubbed back to the metal?

could you please confirm.

it doesn’t seem to have the wear marks that I would expect from normal usage, so it is possible that it has been repainted at some point.

If you could post some close ups of the drag also it could help.

[Stegel]

You could also unscrew the scabbard throat carefully with a good screwdriver and examine the throat insert for any traces of old paint.

This would help to determine what kind of paint job was applied.

it could be a bare metal repaint or a complete paint over (where you should see traces of other paint)

The difficult part is determining whether it is period or post war

[Bruce Pennington]

36 minutes ago, Stegel said:

100% genuine

What do you think of the nut on the tsuka screw?  Can’t sat I’ve ever seen one like that.  Maybe a replacement?

 

Edit:  After zooming in, it looks like the original nut but it’s been buffer down smooth.

[Stegel]

6 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

 After zooming in, it looks like the original nut but it’s been buffer down smooth.

Yes I agree, I’ll need to check other swords in this range by Suya to see if they had the black painted screws or not

[Kiipu]

Zach, I forgot to mention the following link about Type 95s.

IJA Type 95 NCO Sword Info

 

As for your concerns about the color of the scabbard, I would recommend reading the thread below.  The thread introduces several colors besides the dreaded black.

Type 95 Black Saya

[robinalexander]

Ahhh....the evolution of the 'aged' saya.

 

A bad 'copper' Type 95 copy currently on Ebay...what I find interesting is the extra work that has gone into the chipped/rusting saya. 

 

Havent seen this development before.

 

F Y Interest

Rob

[IdontknowreallyInc]

Hi People, I discovered this thread while looking for info and wanted to say thank you for having all this information in one place. I was wondering if you lot could take a look at this sword and let me know if it's indeed not genuine. A little context, I'm not a buyer or collector so no worries about hurt feelings or impulse buying haha, this sword was given to my grandfather a little over 20 years ago when his uncle passed away in his 80-90s and my grandfather recently passed too meaning the sword has ended up with me. Looking at it I believe it is more then likely a reproduction as it just looks a bit too clean/colors look a little weird. If it is a reproduction though it's held up impressively well for its age as it's a bloody old one! Pictures are probably not the best apologies for that.

Also mismatched scabbard/sword serial numbers. It's quite worn in places and fairly crisp in others. Reproduction or not I will be keeping this sword safe as a memento. Any info you can give me on the what and where of the sword, if possible, would be greatly appreciated. Anyways many thanks in advance.

 

[robinalexander]

Hi Jack, 

 

My opinion only.

 

Sword looks ok.  Type 95 (1938/41) Non Commissioned Officers (NCO) sword (issued).

 

Maybe 11mm thicker tsuba which could fit with the early 15xxx number on the blade.

 

Stamps are high in the fuchi (a little unusual) but look ok.

 

1st is ...Ijima Token Seisakusho (factory/maker)

2nd ....Tokyo 1st Arsenal Inspection mark

3rd ...Kokura Army Arsenal

H

Yes, it is clean (blade/tsuba/habaki)....I think someone has done that although the paint loss on the Tsuka (handle) is more consistant with its age.

 

Now the saya (scabbard) is unusual...wonder if its been cleaned back to the metal or even chromed/repainted at some post war stage.

 

Otherwise the saya loks ok to me too.  Numbers are a little unusual BUT I have seen worse that have found to be genuine.

 

So all up, looks genuine to me

Dont worry, we will son find out if I am wrong 😊

 

 

Rob

[Bruce Pennington]

@robinalexander Rob, you're getting pretty good at this!  I agree completely.

 

@IdontknowreallyInc Jack, could you post a clear close-up of a couple places along the saya (scabbard), showing the pitting in the finish?  From the current shots, it appears to have a finish normally found on Type 8/19 swords. 

 

@Stegel @Shamsy

[robinalexander]

Thanks Bruce @Bruce Pennington I refer to your great 'Stamps' download, all the time....keep building it please!

[IdontknowreallyInc]

@robinalexander @Bruce Pennington
Thank you very much for the information, that is excellent news. And for the education on some of the Japanese terminology for the parts. I've included a few screenshots of various areas of the Saya for you. There's much more rust and pitting on that then the sword itself. It does look quite similar to pictures on google of the type you mentioned finish wise. There is also a very small stamp at the bottom of the Saya but it is very hard to make out and even harder to get a clear picture of.

[Kiipu]

A Type 95 Military Sword made by Iijima with an early symmetrical pattern hilt.  The scabbard has been stripped down to bare metal and hence the rust problem.  The sword, as indicated by Rob, is kosher.  Below are a couple of links to get you started about Type 95s.

IJA Type 95 NCO Sword Info

and

Short Development History of Type 95 Gunto

[Kiipu]

8 hours ago, IdontknowreallyInc said:

There is also a very small stamp at the bottom of the Saya but it is very hard to make out and even harder to get a clear picture of.

 

Not unusual and it is just a civilian factory inspection mark.

社 = SHA = Each civilian/private factory 各民間工場.

[Bruce Pennington]

Good eye, Thomas,! I can see now that it is rust on top of bare metal. I had thought it was chrome with rust breaking through the chrome. But you are right.

 

Jack, if you unscrew the small screw and remove the scabbard throat, there is often original paint on the tab.

[robinalexander]

You know Jack....I have never been a fan of repainting saya's....a bad/rough original is WAY better than any repaint job. 

 

That said........in this case I would definately make an exception.  The stripping of this saya would surely have to be post war and if that is the case then nothing about the finish (only the finish) is genuine. 

 

In repainting, the biggest challenge is getting the correct colour/shade and the second biggest challenge is producing a finish that doesn't look like it was painted yesterday (and no paint brushes).  Some experimentation I imagine....slowly, patiently and know when to stop. 

 

If you were to go down that path, the current rust could work to your advantage. Although it would still need to be neutralized at some stage of the process but necessarily at the start of the project.

 

Would be an interesting and probably enjoyable project.

 

Just thinking out-loud.

Rob

 

[vajo]

Katana Japan shin Gunto und Gehänge Schwert - eGun

 

eGun auction: 351 EUR ($320) (16 Bids) 2 days left

 

 

[Kiipu]

Looks good but it is a reproduction.  This particular Iijima model has fooled many and I am seeing them deliberately aged.  So far, they can be found in the 30K to 50K serial number range.  Buyer beware!!

WWII Japanese ARMY TYPE 95 NCO SWORD & MATCHING SCABBARD ARSENAL HALLMARKS

 

Quote

This vintage sword has some wear to the finish on the handle. Also the is a screw missing from the handle. The scabbard has a little paint loss. Both the sword and the scabbard are numbered 52099. There are some arsenal hallmarks on the handle. The blade has not been sharpened. The sword is approx. 36 1/2". The blade is approx. 28" long.

 

X

[Shamsy]

The thing that always stands out immediately to me with these Iijima is the paint. It's just not the right shade. Before seeing anything further it sends up a warning flare to look closer. 

[sabre]

Another fake I think.  https://www.bygoneblades.com/buy-Japanese-type-95-nco-sword-matching-numbers-2209006

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Another Iijima fake, serial #35531, at a Historia Auctionata auction.  Note the punched dimples and the lack of detail in the Iijima logo.  The Tokyo Inspector stamp is wrong.  Hard to see in a zoom, but the kissaki-end of the bohi is rounded like a Nagoya bohi, rather than the kissaki-shaped bohi of the Tokyo Arsenal.  Gotta hand it to them, they are not repeating serial numbers.

[vajo]

they are all from the same fabric. With a good paint job it would burn many.

[vajo]

 

[APINorway]

Hi all, i’m a newbi here. And I hope I can get some help on this Type 95 NCO sword.

was told is original , but ?

[APINorway]