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Fake Type 95 Nco Swords


Shamsy

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Hi all,

while I'm sure our members know how to pick a fake NCO, I wanted to share these.

http://mountcastlesantiques.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=277

http://mountcastlesantiques.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=276&zenid=qot0424cgushvekob07rapkkq2

The really disappointing part is that I informed the site owner about the first sword and provided a comprehensive list of indicators the sword is not genuine. I offered to send photos or provide opinions from experienced collector's. After that I heard nothing. Today I checked, just in case the sword was pulled from sale, and lo and behold there is a 'rare copper handle' now listed, clearly of the same manufacturer. Truly disappointing.

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like many dealers, there main concern is profit,  regardless of the piece being a reproduction.

 

I have been asked this many times at shows, from dealers and buyers. once told the facts they simply try and sell it on at the same price they paid, to avoid a loss of money instead of learning from there mistakes.

 

collectors often have a higher knowledge base then dealers, and a higher respect for items and there history. As we have a grater passion for and preservation in mind rather then profits as a dealer does.

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  • 2 weeks later...

HI All,

 

Hi I'm a newly signed up member of the site

 

I recently took the plunge and made my first Japanese sword purchase. I opted for the lower end of the market and went for a Type 95 (this is all new to me and only found this out through google) NCO Shin Gunto. One thing I also saw while researching is the nightmare of the number of fakes out there.

I avoided buying into German WW2 helmets because of the fakes out there and now I've entered into another minefield.

 

Anyway, if ok, can I post some pictures to get your expert opinion on my purchase?

 

Kind regards,

 

CF

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  • 6 months later...

well it would have fooled me, how about you other gunto guys? Steves last post real or copy?

This looks good from a distance, but up close the details reveal the fake. The biggest giveaway are the stamps. They are getting better with the Kokura cannonballs, but this one - the lines are to thin, the balls too big. Then the horror is the "Ko" stamp! WAY too big, wrong place and the square imprint around it.

 

The seppa is a clear fake, and like everyone else said, the bo-hi starts too far down the blade and the tip is round (like a Nagoya).

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well it would have fooled me, how about you other gunto guys? Steves last post real or copy?

As I said in the other NCO topic.  The overall swords are getting better.  The best place to look is at the serial Numbers.

One, they aren't in the correct range. Second the Font isn't even close.

 

 

Here is a decent fake Stu W. posted over on WAF.

This would fool most entry level guys.  The serial #'s  are the best place to focus IMHO

post-3413-0-58127700-1484330308_thumb.jpg

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post-3413-0-65998100-1484330309_thumb.jpg

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As I said in the other NCO topic.  The overall swords are getting better.  The best place to look is at the serial Numbers.

One, they aren't in the correct range. Second the Font isn't even close.

 

 

Here is a decent fake Stu W. posted over on WAF.

This would fool most entry level guys.  The serial #'s  are the best place to focus IMHO

Yes, those are strangely too perfect and not a recognized font.

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The detail that troubles me is the saya suspension ring being in the right place. Usually the copies are considerably lower, making it very obvious. Slowly improving.

 

I'm reposting the pictures of the fake pattern 5 that Stegel provided in the wooden handled topic just to have them all together.

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Hello,

Carlos,I remember your sword ( if it's the same one you first put on the site ) and it's 100%...If you look at the sword by Shamsy in post no9 look at the seppa and how poorly it fits and how new it looks ! Mauser 99 in post 15 look to the scabbard throat and you should see the brass sleeve visible.Also with the MountCastle example the paint still looked fresh in the overly large fake serial number on the throat.....Shame really because the one that is on the site with a painted hilt but marked sold is a real one,and nice too !

Regards,

Paul..

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  • 9 months later...

Hi all,

 

A new sword was pointed out to me recently which is very well made and in fact at first glance addresses a lot of the issues with obvious fakes. Cheers to Dan for bringing it to my attention. Because it's really quite a nice repro, thought I'd better share it here as for reference.

 

Obvious two issues are the scabbard pattern and additional screw. See how many more you can pick!

 

Gee they're starting to get good though...

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The one thing that always sets off alarms on these is the tsuka almost looks blurred or sandblasted, the real NCO's are usually crisp and bold and well defined. It's hard to really pin down, just doesn't sit right with the eye. Otherwise that is dangerously good to newcomers or unwary collectors looking for that ebay goldmine.

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The one thing that always sets off alarms on these is the tsuka almost looks blurred or sandblasted, the real NCO's are usually crisp and bold and well defined. It's hard to really pin down, just doesn't sit right with the eye. Otherwise that is dangerously good to newcomers or unwary collectors looking for that ebay goldmine.

I agree and have never been able to put it into words like you just did. The real tsukas have crisp detail, and the fakes always seem not-crisp.

 

Also, they definitely like those brass tsukas, don't they!

 

I have NO idea what that belt hanger is supposed to be.

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All correct! There are a bunch more issues with the sword, so if anyone wants to test their detective skills this is a good opportunity.

 

I just wanted to chime in here... I probably say this way too much BUT to flog a dead horse, the NCOs have a ton of small variations between subcontractors and between batches themselves, so just something to keep in mind.

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This sword I shared with Steve (this thread) is a very good knowledge test -  the goofy belt hanger (Bruce references) made me discount the sword immediately, but on closer look (my opinion) the stamps are a bit better than the other, cheaper fakes out there on the market.   I think it's always worth spending the extra time to study these "high end fakes/copies" because they are getting better.    

 

Referencing Carlo's post from last year,  I also used to collect some German (for MANY years) and was quite confident in my ability to spot fakes,  but I admit the quality is now off the charts (especially helmets) and it forced me totally out of that hobby.  I am extremely thankful for the help/knowledge shared in this forum.    

 

Dan  

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  • 7 months later...

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