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Problems With Recent Nthk Certificates And Shinsa Results

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I have noticed that lately the NTHK kanteisho certificates have blatant mistakes.
For example I submitted a set of SIGNED Yoshioka menuki to the NTHK-NPO in Japan, the certificate came back with mumei written on it although it was attributed to Yoshioka inaba no suke! Also the menuki where attributed to the late muromachi period, when it's obvious that they are late Edo period. Besides the Yoshioka family didn't start to sign with this title until the mid Edo period.
I know of several more such mistakes on recent certificates.

I wonder what is going on with the NTHK lately? If they continue like this they will loose much of their credibility.

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Interns? :laughing:

 

Could it be a case of wrong photo on wrong certificate? Is it from the npo or nthk?

 

And nice menuki.

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Axel,

 

It is written in Maximilian's post, second line, in capital letters: NTHK-NPO.

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I had similar problems with the NTHK-NPO, 2014 Shinsa. In a nutshell, they had issued incorrect papers, with the nakago of my Yokoyama Sukehira Katana, on a tanto's kanteisho. My problem is not with the NTHK-NPO, after all, we all make mistakes.  My problem is with the way their delegate handled the situation. That is why they will never get any more of my business.  

 

However, much respect for Mr. Miyano Teiji, a true sword Sensei.

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All shinsa's have problems, if you watched one youd be in wonder how fast they'd herd swords thru, id expect more. The real problems is in how they handle the errors, thats where the rubber meets the road. I had problems with both NTHK, just dont give them money ANYMORE!

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I guess I will ask the obvious question of those with more experience... what would be the 'proper' way to handle these issues to get the most satisfaction for all involved.

 

Should the request (in this specific case) for correction go directly to the NTHK-NPO in Japan? Do we have addresses for the organizations for people not located in Japan? I would think once an error is identified, then getting corrections directly from the source would be the way to go... as long as we have access to the source.

 

I would think (naive?) that the organizations would want the info they send out to be right just as much as we do... their entire business is based on trust and reputation. But if they don't KNOW there is an issue, they can't fix it. Not knowing all the facts makes it difficult to know where the system is broken... beyond the initial error.

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You're not alone. 

 

I've had a similar experience with something someone was trying to sell me, where they neglected to note that the kojiri was signed so there was no comment on that. The fuchi was passed and noted though it was a tragic mismatch for 100% of all of the very very big name famous smith's in-book examples. I have the paper but as I didn't buy this and the owner didn't believe me I will leave it all buried. At least it was indisputable that he had a signed kojiri and no mention of it on the papers so who knows if it is good or not. Owner had no idea because he can't read Japanese. So the third item, the tsuba, I didn't see anything wrong with that but as they missed one signature, got the other wrong, maybe being right on the tsuba completes the circle. 

 

I've also seen some that were "translated" on the worksheet to say things that were not written in Japanese. So the "translator" whomever it was seems to have been inserting his opinion in English where the judges were not writing it into the Japanese section. The worksheet is a worksheet, it's not the official paper so people need to keep that in mind when looking at them. A translator "being helpful" and not being literal is not something you can rely on when you pass it over to someone else and sell it. 

 

If you can't read Japanese you should always have someone else check your papers and at least flag stuff that might need looking at again if it looks strange or something seems missing like in these cases.

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I phoned NTHK today for this issue and spoke with Mr.Oohashi.

 
I explained him the discussion here about the Menuki and Tanto. and asked him how they would handle and solve this mistake.
 
He knew about the menuki. He said that he got a phone call from the dealer(agent) who submitted or handled the menuki.
He told the dealer to send them a photo, NTHK will correct and re-issue the Kanteiso. now, he is waiting for respond from the dealer. but not yet contact from them.
He also said that the owner of the menuki could contact directly to NTHK as well. they will re-issue correct Kanteisho, (free of charge).
 
He didn't know about the tanto, Mumei den-Bizen Yoshii Yoshinori, He immediately checked their files with the kanteisho number, and found out that Mumei Tanto is number T140258, and they issued the paper with item T0257....
the owner of the sword can contact mr.Chris Bowen or direct to NTHK. They will correct.
 
He would like to express apology for their mistake and NTHK is always welcome for any question or recommendation from anybody.
 
NTHK (att.Oohashi)
Oosaki 1-23-1,
Shinagawa, Tokyo
141-0021 Japan
+81 3 5424 0543
info@hozonkai.jp
 
I think that these are pure stupid mistakes, but not tricky fraud. NTHK accepts their mistake and willing correct them.
I can help if needed.
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:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

Well done Kunitaro san, and of course no-one was suggesting anything more than human error. It happens. It is great to hear that they are happy to correct these, and listen to issues that have occurred.

Thank you for taking the time to investigate and make inquiries. I am sure the representatives are/have done the same. There will always be human error, it is how they deal with it that counts. I still trust these societies 1000 times more than my own opinion  :) 

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I am with the human error group but I think it's sloppy and along the lines of the "you had one job" memes. With the error frequency on something that people are counting on precisely for accuracy sake it is worrisome, because sloppiness is something that is within your control. Limits of knowledge are harder to get into and everyone is subject to that. 

 

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