Realistically, How Likely Is It...

[Chango]

...that previously undiscovered/unrecognized works of the very top swordsmiths of all time are still floating around in the sword market for cheap?

 

Have you experienced or know of a story about someone recently who stumbled onto a real pot of gold at the end of that rainbow?

 

It sounds cliche but if you happened to buy the Honjo Masamune off Ebay for a song from an unwitting seller (or even a Saijo owazamono smith's work) would you scream about it and tell everyone like you just won the lottery or keep quiet about it?

 

Just curious about "Nihonto culture" and what such a reaction would be like.

[paulb]

there was a calculation done some while ago that suggested there were still a number of national treasure blades that had been taken from Japan after the war as keepsakes which may be in attics or barns in the USA waiting to be found.

There have also been occassional (very occassional) examples of blades being purchased cheaply on ebay which after polish and restoration papered highly to such as ichimonji. I believe these were unsigned and someone took a flyer and hit gold.

For a signed work by a famous smith to appear anywhere at auction and go for a bargain price, particularly now that most auction houses use the internet to advertise and sell must be incredibly unlikely. If a signed work appears at auction and sells for a bargain price then the overwhelming liklihood is that it will be gimei.

I also read that there will never be any meito found as to qualify as such the work needs to have continuous provenance confirming it's authenticity so if it is lost and re-appears it cannot be considered meito (or couldnt at the  time the book was written)

For the "hunter fraternity", I think there is always the thrill of the chase and eternal hope. The reality is that it has become increasingly difficult to find such hidden treasures and there is by far more fools gold out there than the real thing.

[Pete Klein]

What I have seen happen more than once was for a blade to 'walk in' to a sword show and be purchased , usually by a dealer, which is a high level piece. The reality is that you have to have a great knowledge of swords to recognize the piece for what it really is as they are usually out of polish and the confidence to purchase on-sight without papers or corroboration. One such item, a uchizori tanto was picked up several years ago and eventually went Juyo token. It was a 'big' name. Therefore, to answer your question, yes, it can happen but you really have to know what you are doing.

[Ray Singer]

The lost Juyo Bijitsuhin Soshu Akihiro (first in the published list of missing important Japanese Swords) was found in a pawn shop just a couple of years ago. An ubu signed Bitchu Aoe tanto sat on eBay for months and months at a low Buy It Now. I had arranged to meet the owner at the Tampa Show, but the tanto was sold to a dealer before I arrived and is now Juyo. A friend found another signed koto tanto on eBay which later went Juyo to a Yamato smith. Great swords are still out there and continue to emerge. Jim Kurrasch used to say that there is an unrecognized (potential) Juto sitting on the table at every show, waiting to be found if you know what to look for. I can think of a number of great swords which were bought of the floor at shows in just the last few years (Shodai Kanenaga, Mutsu (no) Kami Tadayoshi, Kenjo Kanenaga, Nidai Nobukuni, etc), all at relatively low prices by collectors who knew what to look for in terms of quality.

 

- Ray

[Jean]

Raymond said it all:

 

"...,,,, by collectors who knew what to look for in terms of quality."

[Pete Klein]

QUICK!  Somebody give me an old, crappy sword to post on Ebay!  ROFLMAO!!!

[Fuuten]

Who posted that great Baron L. Lirpa story? That was a good one

[Jiro49]

A friend about 18yrs ago found a missing Kotetsu tanto with horimoni of daikokuten  in a small town in IN which was also listed as missing in the kotetsu meikan and is now back in Japan.

[Prewar70]

Earlier this year 7 Ty Cobb baseball cards, worth over 1 million dollars, were founds in a crumbled, brown, paper bag while cleaning out a family members house. If I remember right, this doubled the number of known cards in existence. I think there are a lot of rare swords waiting to be discovered or lost forever. But they are out there.

[paulb]

James

Thats what motivates a lot of people to keep looking.

For many years some very reputable dealers made a living out of searching out such swords. As both Ray and Jean point out the key to their success was knowing what they were looking at and understanding when and when not something was worth taking a chance on. In every collecting field we hear stories of people, expert or otherwise getting lucky and finding a treasure out of the blue. its a dream that motivates most of us to some extent but one that is rarely realised (at least not by me )

[tokashikibob]

I'm a treasure hunter, if it's digging for gold or taking a flyer on antiques.   I enjoy the hunt and appreciate the quality of older objects of all types.  And being a mechanic I can relate to the work required.

 

  There are plenty of rare desirable objects out there, you just have to trust your knowledge and minimize risk as much as possible.

 

   As I hunt for nihonto and the like, I buy/sell/keep other things I find on the weekends.  Often there are treasures all over,  It's just hard to let some objects go.

 

Best Regards and happy hunts!

  Bob

 

Last week:

$5 for Galle Vase

$1000 for Named Confed 1851 Navy Colt found under the bed of the Confed's grandson last month

.10cent - Mint Bruce Jenner when he was a man!!!!

[Mark S.]

 

$1000 for Named Confed 1851 Navy Colt found under the bed of the Confed's grandson last month

 

 

Hate to be the one to break it to you... but gimei...

 

OK... Someone had to... 

[ROKUJURO]

There are so many  $ 5.-- Gallé vases on the market....

[Ryan]

I found this little forgotten treasure hidden in a closet of a relative's house. Signed Taira Nobuhide, and passed shinsa in Tampa with eligibility for the yushu shinsa in Japan.

[Jean]

Nowadays, Gallé are manufactured in Romania by thousand. I bought a few while there. They cannot be factured anymore in France due to the manufacturing process (use of acids)

[Pete Klein]

Ryan -- that is an awesome blade.  It reminds me of a barracuda with a bite to match!!!

[Shamsy]

It sounds cliche but if you happened to buy the Honjo Masamune off Ebay for a song from an unwitting seller (or even a Saijo owazamono smith's work) would you scream about it and tell everyone like you just won the lottery or keep quiet about it?

I would ask a few far more learned minds for an opinion first. Were it believed to be genuine I'd contact NBTHK. The only way to have it authenticated is to send it to Japan, where it is classed as a national treasure and you basically give it up. I'd be fine with that. I think the pleasure of having done something so meaningful in life would far outweigh a selfish 'mine!' desire. Even easier decision if I bought it for a monetary amount I wouldn't miss. It may be a bit more traveling, but you could still see it on display. Might also open some doors so you get to see some other amazing swords to that aren't readily available for viewing. How great would that be?

[Greg F]

Ryan that is sweet looking blade and would be very exciting to uncover. Congrats.

 

Greg