Finally Got My Tsuba!

[obiwanknabbe]

just thought I would share this with everyone. I was told it was Jidai period but beyond that I dont know enough to guess at which school it came from. If you know or think you do please let me know. I will go so far as to guess that I didnt pay anywhere near enough for it.  3.25 inch diameter  and about .25 inch thick at the rim. Carved iron. Heavy.

Kurt k

[ROKUJURO]

Kurt,

JIDAI means 'period' or 'age' (e.g. EDO JIDAI).

The surface of your TSUBA looks a little coarse. You say it is carved, but do you see tools marks or traces of chisel work when you look closely at it?

[Stephen]

looks cast to me as well

[obiwanknabbe]

Yes Jean.. under a loop i can see fine tool marks around the base of the design. The surface is actually different in hand. The photo may be a little over exposed and it still had some oil on it. I suppose it could have been lost wax cast and then the design refined by tool afterwards?  

 

Kurt

[jlawson]

Sometimes it is deceptive in photos but to me this piece looks cast as well. Sorry. 

[obiwanknabbe]

So does it being cast necessarily mean anything other than it was cast when it was made? I know very little of tsuba in general so please feel free to school me. If by saying its cast your saying its a fake, i can get my money back from the seller without issue. I paid 300 usd for it. Did i take a bath or is that a fair price ? on the other hand when you say cast, was that something commonly done in history?

 

Kurt

[Alex A]

Kurt, being honest, I would get my money back,

 

For $300 you could get a decent handmade tsuba.

 

Sometimes when chasing a theme it can take you in all directions, look for decent quality, dont rush. If you dont know what decent quality is then learn, dont guess.

 

If you put a koshirae together using low quality fittings, I guarantee that one day you will look at it and think what an expensive pile of ----

 

Sorry to be blunt, just dont want to see you wasting your money

[Ford Hallam]

If I have to cast a vote it would also say it's cast. Which means a modern, post 1950, copy/reproduction. Most likely not even 10 years old imo.

[obiwanknabbe]

Hum.... I got this from Mr. Le Pelltier who runs http://tsuba-no-bi.com/home/up in Canada. Does any one have experience with him? Known to sell modern copies as this was not advertised as such. He described it as being "Mito" though i admit full ignorance as to what that means other than it being a school.   Here is the link to the sold page.. its item T00255 so you have to scroll down. http://tsuba-no-bi.com/tsuba/sold/52/

 

Kurt

 

Here is a straight scan. That line must be something on the glass.. but no extra lighting or anything.. just a raw pic. 

[ggil]

^{Wow!  some really nice pieces there!  This one from the group (picture attached) is a notorious cast fake (you are the best Ford!).  Saw an identical one but in awful condition go for $900 on ebay a couple months ago.  Looks like even  dealers are human and make mistakes.  When you get a refund you may as well let the person know they sold another POS and may want to get a hold of the buyer before they find out on their own.} 

^-Grant

[jlawson]

I have done business with him in the past and have never heard of problem with him as a seller. Although I bought exactly what I wanted and knew exactly what it was. I am not sure what you are looking for from us here on this forum though. Seems to me that you bought an item and were apparently overjoyed to own it from the exclamation and wording you used including that "you didn't pay anywhere near enough for it". In my opinion you paid exactly what you should have for it. To me from the photos it looks like a cast reproduction but even if it is a true carved tsuba with condition issues it is of such low quality and definition that it is rather a tsuba shaped object at current state. There are a good number of actually good tsuba on that page from that seller that I would think someone would rather own and a plethora of other sellers both on this board and all over the internet with good tsuba. I would suggest you save your money for a bit and buy some books and earnestly study before you jump out there and buy another tsuba. Or alternatively, buy things and enjoy them for what you like in them vs what they actually are. If you can be as happy as you were at the start of this post for $300 and continue on that path then more power too you. 

[obiwanknabbe]

James, what i am looking for is exactly what i received, honest feedback.  I make no claims to know much about tsuba so this is indeed a learning experience. Do i like the design? Yes, thats why I purchased it... Did I think I good deal? Yes, but it turns out i was wrong.. Now having  learned that it was not a legitimate piece from those who know more, i can move forward with rectifying that issue, as I plan to do, and be wiser for the experience.

 

Kurt 

[Lee Bray]

Nobody else thinks it could just be a very poor amateur patina?
I don't see any obvious casting marks, just thick layers of the modern 'flash rusting' that hasn't been rubbed down between applications.

[Marius]

Sorry, but it is obvious that this is cast. The carving lacks detail, the surface is porous. 

[Lee Bray]

Carving detail can be obscured by poor patina application.

I'm well aware of the porous look of the surface of a cast tsuba but they are generally of a uniform colour/patina whereas this one, to me, shows varying depths of patina under the nakago mune on the first picture. The patchy, thick rust in that area just looks very like poor patina jobs I've attempted before.

To me, the surface looks like a result of poor patina rather than the porous look of cast. It may well be cast with a poor patina...

Either way, it's rough, no dispute there.

[Marius]

Just look at the waves and the cranes.