Help/ Value Of Edo Koshirae

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Any opinions on this? Does it look authentic? It has no papers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rivkin]

Ito is sort of modern, as is same, and its not of the highest grade. Late edo lacquered saya, rather nice, but it was not born together with fk and menuki.

Fk and menuki are late Edo and below average. Poor condition and not great work to begin with.

No, I don't think it will paper if papers are desired.

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Thanks 

[uwe]

Agree with Rivkin. Sorry Steven.

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No worries at all I am glad to have such a helpful group to ask my noobie questions1

[SteveM]

Hello Steven,

 

Yes it looks like an aogai mijin nuri scabbard, which was popular in late edo (or so I read somewhere). I agree that it isn't National Treasure-level quality. Still, it looks to be in fairly good condition, even if there are a few bits of gold-leaf missing from the sakura petals. And obviously its missing a tsuba too (unless its meant to be an ai-kuchi scabbard, but I think that's unlikely). 

 

The newish tsuka-maki and same/shark/ray skin doesn't bother me that much. At least the tsuka-maki looks like it was done professionally, and was well executed. The fuchi and kashira have maybe a karuta theme. I can't tell what the menuki are. 

 

So overall it has the effect of a good scabbard that someone was restoring, or maybe someone was assembling pieces to fit a sword that had no koshirae. But I like it and it has a charming, playful quality to it. 

[Kam A]

Hi

Aogai nuri was highly prized and at one stage quite expensive. The new tsukamaki is reasonably well done. . .do like the turtle menuki as well. Overall while not completely an original (as made) still a nice ensemble and would take little work (from someone that knows what they are doing) to reguvinate the lacquer work and bring it to a feeling of being a completely related and "whole" as opposed to the slightly forced feel that the newer same and ito tend to give it. Just my thoughts while I finish my cup of coffee.

 

Kam

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Well I guess it boils down to this, given its condition do you think its worth $400? 

[Grey Doffin]

Looking at the koi-guchi and ko-jiri: if the petals that aren't gold are some other soft metal (meant to be that way) then definitely worth $400 I think.  If what I'm seeing is missing gold, then possibly worth $400 but not by much.

But what do I know?

Grey

[Bazza]

Well, you don't get nothin' for nothin'; boiling it down I'd pay $400 for it.  BUT - I would first be asking the question, where is the blade and where is the tsuba??????  If the answer isn't forthcoming or sounds wishy washy I'd try to bargain it down to $300.  It's a very uncomfortable feeling knowing (or thinking) someone has ratted the tsuba and blade from a decent ensemble, for whatever reason, then trying to flog the unwanted koshirae.  We can imagine that to some eyes the koshirae is "down" because the fittings aren't more visually appealing and the aogai looks "cheap".  I think SteveM and Kam put it best.  Now all it comes down to is price...

 

BaZZa.

 

EDIT: Nice photos, by the way.  As to missing petals I'm sure this is intentional.  I once had a wakizashi with the black-lacquered saya in good condition and with the gold lacquered sakura (cherry blossom) perfectly original.  Some had petals missing and I attributed this to wind-blown blossoms missing petals with some deeper allusion to the impermanence of life.,..

[Alex A]

As well done as the tsuka appears, it all adds up to be just another modern assembly, without age, which is a minus for a koshirae without a sword.

 

Personally, if looking for just a koshirae, try and find an old assembly with some age to it (with tsuba) that all fits together well and has decent matching fittings,

 

More appealing and easier re-sell, just my humble opinion, and opinions differ when it comes to these issues.

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Thank you for the feedback Alex

[Kam A]

Hi Alex

 

There seems to be a number of differing theorys as to what and why to collect etc. In the instance of Koshirae some people may be very much inclined to buy only "edo period" (ambiguos age) koshirae

while there are some that only want pristine quality (difficult to acquire with any age) and are happy to hae modern examples. Some may want an old tattered "original" koshirae and would never dream of repairs or adjustments of any sort. Personally I think Koshirae should be viewed as they were intended. . especially as Koshirae served a function to be replaced once worn out. There is nothing wrong with collecting purchasing koshirae of any age as long as context is taken into account and price reflects craftsmanship. The cost of a new koshirae inc fittings is not cheap, so in this instance taking into account the cost of replacing the tsuba (rarely guaranteed to have been the original intended peice) and then comparing to the cost of having something crafted of simmilar quality. . . this is not a bad deal.

[Alex A]

Hi Alex

 

There seems to be a number of differing theorys as to what and why to collect etc. In the instance of Koshirae some people may be very much inclined to buy only "edo period" (ambiguos age) koshirae

while there are some that only want pristine quality (difficult to acquire with any age) and are happy to hae modern examples. Some may want an old tattered "original" koshirae and would never dream of repairs or adjustments of any sort. Personally I think Koshirae should be viewed as they were intended. . especially as Koshirae served a function to be replaced once worn out. There is nothing wrong with collecting purchasing koshirae of any age as long as context is taken into account and price reflects craftsmanship. The cost of a new koshirae inc fittings is not cheap, so in this instance taking into account the cost of replacing the tsuba (rarely guaranteed to have been the original intended peice) and then comparing to the cost of having something crafted of simmilar quality. . . this is not a bad deal.

 

Hi Kam

 

Horses for courses, I never said that the koshirae was a bad deal, just gave an opinion as to why its not to my taste. The first thing that stuck out like a sore thumb was the lack of tsuba. Although there are always exceptions, an EDO koshirae of this type (wakizashi or katana) with jazzy saya in AIKUCHI style is just not my cup of tea, this look I prefer on Uchigatana from the Koto period, were in my opinion the look should stay. I cant help wondering if the creator of this koshirae flogged the tsuba or simply didn't have one, but who knows, and guessing games I don't like.

 

Nowadays if I see a sword for sale with a modern tsuka I'm automatically suspicious, is it a modern assembly by Mr fixit or is it an original koshirae with a re-wrap?. Ive done a full koshirae in the past and whilst the craftsmanship was excellent its always niggled me, its my creation, not antique, as no age, a fake so to speak. 

 

Original ANTIQUE koshirae/tsuka in GOOD condition should be left alone or repaired, when messed with, for me they loose their appeal.

 

As mentioned though, all down to personal taste, no right or wrong rules, just differing opinions.

 

Early here, hope ive made sense, late for work again