Jump to content

New Tang.. Need Help. Thanks..


mauser99

Recommended Posts

as always thank you all ahead of time.. As this is something we shouldn't take for granted.  The chances of me learning Japanese is slim to none  A very difficult tang to photo..  Kanji is small and tight.  Dark as well.  I can try the chalk trick if we cant get there.. Tang is single sided less a serial #.   No arsenal stamp visible.

post-3413-0-71111000-1447205429_thumb.jpg

post-3413-0-70524800-1447205433_thumb.jpg

post-3413-0-62507500-1447205437_thumb.jpg

post-3413-0-18345300-1447205442_thumb.jpg

post-3413-0-28921900-1447256216_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like 長雲斎江鍛之

 

I would have expected rather than 丹, but it looks much closer to 丹 than 村.

(But, if it is 江村, you would expect 長斎).

 

Edit: Actually, I take that back, it does look closer to 村 than 丹.
So, 長雲斎江村鍛之   Chōunsai Emura kore wo kitaeru (but perhaps still a puzzling 雲 which I would expect to be 運. Pronunciation is the same either way.)

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks as always..  So this may be my second prison made blade.  The other being the Nagamitsu  I posted.  Or was Nagamitsu put into prison and then made blades while there.

I can caulk in the Kanji if this may help.  Any idea why or what the serial # means ?  The fittings aren't numbered on this example. So I doubt its an assembly number ?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not THE Emura unless this is one of the worst signatures I have ever seen...  Also, Nagamitsu had no affiliation with a prison - that was Emura.

 

About Emura: http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/emura.htm

About Nagamitsu: http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/naga.htm

The Emura and Nagamitsu debate: http://www.japaneseswordindex.com/nagamura.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

here are some better photos with chalk added to highlight the kanji.  Also showing the polish and harmon.  

 

My comment of the wartime  Nagamitsu  was based on what I was told as he was put in prison for killing his wife and made blades while incarcerated.   

Another myth ?  Im sure it is.. 

post-3413-0-80335300-1447254954_thumb.jpg

post-3413-0-09704000-1447254958_thumb.jpg

post-3413-0-06243800-1447254960_thumb.jpg

post-3413-0-12287700-1447254962_thumb.jpg

post-3413-0-24151900-1447256058_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Joe

thats interesting I have heard various theories ranging from Nagamitsu and Emura were one in the same and also nagamitsu trained or ran the prison sword production (can remember which prison) the blades produced there being signed Emura. There also seems to be some variation in ideas about relative quality. The Nagamitsu I have seen always looked superior to the Emura's but in a recent posting on Aoi Art Tsuruta san stated the opposite saying Emura were better than Nagamitsu.

Not my area so all of these ideas may have been dispelled but what is you take on it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yup - Myth. Well at least I've never seen, heard, or read that one before.

ok,  No more mentioning this myth.       What about the clearer signature ??   Doesn't match any on the posted link.  But, if he had many students there is a possibility of many variants.  

Similar to nagamitsu.

 

Also having both I can say this blade is much lighter than the Nagamitsu I own.  That blade has a thicker nose and more overall weight.  This blade is as light as a feather.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paul,

I have owned both Emura and Nagamitsu and both were higher quality that most of their other work that I have seen. Tough to say which was better. They're both approximately the same skill and I believe that the Nagamitsu I owned was supposed to be "special" as it had his long signature including his Go. It has been my experience that the best nagamitsu's have Ichiryushi in the mei. Just my experience.

 

The Emura was every bit as good and it was not a "special" sword in which he used his long signature. Assuming the same holds true for Emura about the length of his signature - I think it does but haven't seen a ton of examples in hand - then that would drive me to lean towards Emura. That said, the Nagamitsu was very robust vs. a very elegant Emura. So personal taste plays a part here too - as it always does.

 

As far as this sword, I doubt highly that this is Chounsai Emura. The Emura swords you can find have some variation in the mei, but all approximately similar. I don't know what is going on with this one. I could be wrong though (it's happened a dozen times already today).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Wayne,

 

As far as I can tell, the chalked in version makes it a bit clearer to see, but it doesn't change how anything looks. The mei still reads

長雲江村鍛之 

But the 村 is very odd. I changed the 斎 to the simplified version 斉, but the reading/meaning is the same. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Wayne,

 

As far as I can tell, the chalked in version makes it a bit clearer to see, but it doesn't change how anything looks. The mei still reads

長雲江村鍛之 

But the 村 is very odd. I changed the 斎 to the simplified version 斉, but the reading/meaning is the same. 

thanks, Steve .  I guess the text doesn't lie.    So it says  Chounsai  Emura Kore wo Kitaeru    Is the that the name and Province ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe an early attempt by one of the prison makers under his supervision, then signed by that maker in his name?

Don't think it is by him, and doesn't make sense to do gimei if you are not even trying to copy his mei...so maybe made early in his career or by an assistant.
Just wild guessing here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok, thanks all !   As far as I can see there are @ least 13 listed and who's to say there aren't more.  If any its closest to example J.

I'm new here so I really don't want to rock the boat so to speak.   Japanese swords seem to be one of the few collector items where fakes were made during the period itself.  Should I say fakes or copies ?   I wasn't sure if this guy famous enough for his name to be copied by others.

A very interesting topic for sure.  I can only say the blade is very light and well balanced. 

Quality seems to be very good.   

 

I'm really only a Shin-gunto collector and Not a "high-end" Blade collector.   I know many here are and are very knowledgeable on the subject.

 

To me it's a bonus to buy on a budget and wind up getting a better blade than I bargained for.

 

As far as my type3 in the back ground it was found along with another type98 that has the Nagamitsu blade in it I posted already In a basement in Ohio and was bought from the guy who did the clean out.   I have showed it to a couple Sword guys and they feel its a Nice blade.

The wrap has never been disturbed and there is paper packed in the wrapping to cover the burlap.  I guess this was done when the coated the wrap to mask off the diamond shaped ?? It looks like rice paper.   I will take some photos.  I'm torn as what to do.  I don't really want to disturb it.

As so few things are un-touched now a days.     

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The potential for a decent smith (and therefore HUGELY more desirable) trumps any sentimentality over disturbing a sword imho.

They were made to be taken apart. Often. It is never very difficult.

These guys know their stuff. They can see what version it is....you are VERY likely to have a nice Gendaito in there.

I never understand the decision not to find out who made a sword. Especially with Yasukunito fetching over $6000 and plain type 3's being under $1000. But it is your sword, and of course your decision. But if you have a good sword there it is eminently more important than some militaria fetish imho.

Guess it comes from seeing how good some wartime swords can be.

 

Edit to add: There is zero reason to pack rice paper in there apart from the little triangles that are put under the diamonds to keep the shape of the wrap. They should be hidden anyways, and if they are visible they have shifted. The mekugi will be accessible somehow without affecting anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will do a shoot on the type3 soon.   I will do it before I attempt to take it apart.  Lots of these seem to have screws not pegs and they do some damage when removed.  I know a guy who sets up @ the Allentown PA show and may bring it again to him and he can help me do it with as little damage as possible. 

 

These are the photos when it was pulled out of the basement along with the two others.

 

In the one photo you can see the paper used to mask off the burlap so when the wrap is treated it doesn't discolor it.

We were thinking maybe the sword was never finished ? 

post-3413-0-62506900-1447353411_thumb.jpg

post-3413-0-36210300-1447353418_thumb.jpg

post-3413-0-27761200-1447353421_thumb.jpg

post-3413-0-67244000-1447353660_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

no, I sold it off to help finance the others.  I think the guy who bought it still has it ?  If anyone is interested.

The blade is just dirty in the photos.  It's fine believe me.  The vet coated all the blades in some sort of grease ??  Came right off.

Again, I showed a couple knowledgeable people the blade and said it was nice.  I just didn't feel temped at the time to tear into what's been in place since 1945. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Wayne,

I think you might have a RJT blade there in that "Type 3". These are good quality fittings. I have an identical one ,,,same fittings maker... which contains a star stamped RJT blade by "Fushimi Ju Takashima Kunihide Saku" of Kyoto. Nothing much known of my guy but after cleaning, a very nice sword.

The two photos here are from the ebay seller a few years ago...blade pic is taken at an angle so blade looks shorter than it is. Fittings are identical to yours.

 

Looking at your handle wrapping, I'd say that the paper has slipped out of place under the binding (mine was the same...also had a strange "hessian" looking material instead of same). A gentle prod back into place with a slim screwdriver blade or a wooden toothpick or something will sort out the paper " triangles. You should then see the tops of either screws or pegs or maybe one of each (mine is two pegs).

Yours and mine would have originally had leather combat covers on the saya..

 

Just be careful and don't rush. If you have a problem just ask here and one of us will help ...maybe there is a member near you who can show you how to be careful and get a handle off without damage to binding, handle or sword.

 

Good luck and let us know what you find.

regards,

post-470-0-09888200-1447417774_thumb.jpg

post-470-0-31184300-1447417809_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one, unless your post is really relevant and adds to the topic..

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...