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I Believe It To Be An Ken, Not An Yari..

bmoore1322

By bmoore1322
in Nihonto

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DirkO Mentor

DirkO

Posted
Posted

So are these:
http://nihontou.jp/choice03/toukenkobugu/tantou/069/00.html

 

http://nihontou.jp/choice03/toukenkobugu/tantou/099/00.html

 

 

I think a ken is a straight blade with a double cutting edge. I'm not so sure it has to be diamond shaped

 

Ken (剣): Usually a tanto or wakizashi length religious or ceremonial blade, with a gentle leaf shape and point, but some may be larger and can also refer to old pre-curve types of swords as above. Symmetrical and double edged.

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Geraint Grand Master

Geraint

Posted
Posted

So from this we can conclude.

 

1  Ken are usually, if not always,  ryoshinogi in form.

2  Quite a few hira sankaku yari exist and are not uncommonly found mounted as tanto.

3  We wonder what has happened to the kerakubi if this was a yari.

4  The nakago is not terribly well finished if the blade was formed this way which seems to suggest o suriage.

 

Or of course, it just might be an odd tanto that someone felt like making this way...................

 

All the best.

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Jean

Jean

Posted
Posted

Don't forget the hi ....

 

Edit to add:

 

It is really curious, the nakago lets suppose by its triangular shape that the blade is O suriage but, I have never seen a sansaku yari without a hi, but this hi seems intact so the blade is not O suriage. Very curious indeed

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Ray Singer Grand Master

Ray Singer

Posted
Posted

Don't forget the hi ....

 

Edit to add:

 

It is really curious, the nakago lets suppose by its triangular shape that the blade is O suriage but, I have never seen a sansaku yari without a hi, but this hi seems intact so the blade is not O suriage. Very curious indeed

 

I have seen yari in which the piece was so polished down that the original hi was nearly gone. It is not impossible to imagine that this was a longer piece, the original hi has been eliminated, and a new hi added after the o'suriage process. Looking at the belly-effect (concave areas mid-blade) it is evidence that this piece has been greatly degraded over time (much metal removed). That would be my guess, a yari (not a ken) in which the kerakubi is gone and the current nakago was originally part of the blade.

 

- Ray 

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Jean

Jean

Posted
Posted

Ray,

 

image 10 gives an idea of the depth of the groove which is consequent. What would have been the thickness of the original blade should have it been shaved to the point of having its original groove erased. What would have been the original hamon width of such a blade?

 

It seems nevertheless the only logical explanation

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Ray Singer Grand Master

Ray Singer

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Posted

Hi Jean, I admit it may be a stretch. I have a yari here that is exceptionally thick, perhaps 1.5mm. It was when held in hand that I could see that a reduction past the current hi would leave a sugata like the example here (the more 'normal' Kasane of a small ken). I would be interested in knowing the thickness of the sword we are discussing.

 

Best,

Ray

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Jean

Jean

Posted
Posted

I asked Brian the thickness of the blade. It is 1/2 inch or 1,1 cm. Now if we have a look on what is available in the market, the average thickness of yari is between 0,9 and 1 cm. All these yari have still their original grooves. This would make a monster in thickness of this blade should the original groove having been totally polish flat.

 

Hypothesis: what could have occured is that before being totally finished (hi not being carved) the blade was seriously damaged near the kerabuki thus transformed in a tanto from the beginning which would explain this groove.

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Kam A Contributor

Kam A

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Personally I believe it had started its life as a Yari. Tanto and wakizashi conversions are not rare. . but that is just my opinion.

As for sizes of yari etc, here is a few old pics of one from my collection after all the rust and pitting was removed (in other words it had a fair bit of steel removed)

Nagasa 25cm.

 

Kam

post-3318-0-76835400-1440384920_thumb.jpg

post-3318-0-47691800-1440384964_thumb.jpg

post-3318-0-95555700-1440385071_thumb.jpg

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bmoore1322 Proficient

bmoore1322

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I have a chance to buy an papered tanto with the original Koshirae, and an Shirasaya also.

 

I might have to sell this Nihonto Ken / Yari to purchase it, as its quite a bit more then what I have to work with right now.

If I was to offer this one for sale, what would be an good asking price on it ?

I never like to sell, only buy, but I really want this one Tanto really bad.

Thanks..
Brian

 

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