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New modern tsuba reproductions on the market


Rich T

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For the newer collector, these items coming out of Japan should be kept well clear off.

 

Modern reproductions of classic guards, made with more care and flair than usual.

 

http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/100983880

 

http://page8.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/h49028994

 

Expect these to be on Ebay soon.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

06k1.jpg

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Hello

Funny time! I recently wrote on another site (no advertising!) a very similar post and warned people about modern Japanese copies of tsuba once I have had a look at the following link:

 

http://home.a01.itscom.net/ryuken/main.html

 

While the honesty of the business/factory is not questionable, some of these modern tsuba are dreadful: hammering, sekigane, tagane, (patina much less) rather well done. This is all the more true that these tsuba are sometimes mixed among low/middle level but genuine tsuba, on auction sites, including Japan based sites. So…I was wondering how to advise people and more specifically beginners (but not only beginners!). There may be good bargains on auction sites but a quality tsuba has a price, as well has a certificate...But this is another story!

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Repros vs. Modern tsuba smiths...

 

These repros should not slander some of the modern tsuba smiths. Like gendai swords, some of the gendai tsuba in the last decade have been phenomenal quality.

 

These repros are getting much better. At first glance some fool me on the web. Yes, the way to know them is study, study, study. Often the repros are copies of better known or famous designs from books. If you know the originals, you have a good sense of the geometry being off, especially in the mimi or the spacing of the sukashi.

So the repro makers do better trickery with simpler designs. Some are very hard to tell as repros from web photos looking only top down.

 

In hand the patina and characteristics of the iron tell a lot. It is more difficult from a photo. With these repros that are pickled to make them older, the "correct" rust in the sukashi and other areas does not seem correct, etc. Then you look to other evidence.

The evidence adds up and if I cannot see enough evidence in photos or know the seller, I just let it go past.

 

Even the experts have difficulty. I know both the NBTHK and the NTHK (NPO) have both papered tsuba that I am highly certain were very skilled unsigned moderns . But the NBTHK & NTHK are also quick to bounce anything they think modern. I've known them to bounce fittings judged authentic by the other organization (NBTHK vs. NTHK). The Yoshikawa NTHK seems especially quick to "error on the side of caution". I cannot blame them, but it must be frustrating to the owners of the items.

 

 

Curran

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Unfortunately they'll end up as authentic on ebay. Honestly I never would have been able to tell that they're not from the pics. What are the tell tail sighs that these are repro's? I know nothing about tosogu so any pointers would be appreciated.

 

Waynes asks good questions. Michel and Curran have both made some very good points, one very pertinent. STUDY. It is most important.

 

What is also important is that most of us seem to be committed to at least looking at if not buying from Ebay and the likes when compiling our collections so if we are going to head down this path, we should try to remember these few rules.

 

Study: Look at the images very very carefully. There are nearly always signs that give away modern made.

 

Think: Think long and hard before bidding, don't just just up n" bid on the first thing you see. Try and look through the internet and just look at pictures of quality tsuba (there are heaps of them out there) and try and think, quality, we see it every day in our every day life. Does this item have quality ?, or does it look odd, or cheapish ? ( a good mantra for people looking at Chines knockoff swords me thinks :-)

 

Ask: many new collectors think that if they ask for help, the person who they are asking may jump on their amazing find and buy it from under them. Well I can assure you, if it it amazing, that will happen anyway. You are not the only person looking at Ebay :-) Asking for help is not a silly thing, and I would suggest if you are a little paranoid, then ask one or two people whom you know to have some knowledge, not a forum. You will find most collectors willing to help out. It's better to loose a few pieces and buy quality than to amass a collection of Kah Kah.

 

Just take a long hard look before bidding. In the case of the second tsuba, look at this set of images. This is a very famous Owari Sukashi tsuba that is much publicised.

 

06k1.jpg

 

In the first and second images, it is the colour that set off my alarm bells. It is flat and unatural. Lots of study and looking at tsuba in hand and also books will give you a far better idea of what old guards should look like. There is no way to fake (yet) 200 years or more of natural patina.

 

In the third image have a close look at the seppa dai, the patina looks painted on, it is not a natural patina and even in the best old iron, there are variations in colour, surface texture etc, where as this looks like one even flat colour, with also a strange satin gloss that is also unnatural. This is more evident in the next image in the punch marks, these should not have the same glossy patina as the surface as they have had metal removed and are not a finished Ji or surface but the raw iron in the tsuba's base.

 

The fourth image shows many things to me. The lack of any age on the sukashi walls. When looking at tsuba, the walls are always a part to check for quality and age. They should be in as much of an unaltered state as possible from their day of manufacture. That means even rusty sukashi walls are better than clean walls. Sukashi walls that have been cleaned of all rust and natural aging can result in ruining a tsuba.

 

The mimi shows an uneven colour and false patination to my eye on the right hand side of this image. There is a patchy coloured section and the lighter part has an unnatural red tone that I believe is showing the colour of modern rust.

 

The biggest giveaway of this image is thought the Ji. It is flat and dull and lifeless and not at all what forged iron looks like. It has no surface texture, no hammering, no natural uneveness (even the slightest would be expected in a hand made and forged object) nothing.

 

All this just adds up to BE AWARE to my eye. There are tsubako in Japan that are continuing the old way, one famous tsuba maker is Yoshindo Yoshihara, and Yoshihara sensei takes as seriously his tsuba making as he does his swords. The signs are quality, always quality, the Japanese aesthetic and a genuine beauty, explainable or not.

 

The First tsuba is very much harder but the new rust is very evident. If it has any age, it has been repatined. Again it is a very famous tsuba and many example exist by Kanayama and Shoami. We are fortunate to have a top end example for sale in Japan at this time.

 

http://ginzaseikodo.com/fittings.html

 

I always suggest buying quality first. Don't own 4 swords or tsuba, own one, and buy a good one, papered if possible. Study learn and be patient. Then in a few years, go and attack Ebay will al the gusto you can muster. You will have more success and fun.

 

Those these are just my views and opinions, please keep that in mind, others may think differently. Ok, I need a coffee I think after all that.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

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Hey guys been a while, not sure why I don't make it here enough. Anyway, Rich T is totally on the color, it is a true giveaway. Another thing to look at is crispness. If a punch is rounded as in the edges, start thinking casting. You would see sharper edges that would also have at least some unevenness about them. When you cast something you will lose the crispness of that stamp or even of any edge. IF the edges are perfectly round, imagine how hard that would be to do with raw iron. the casting on the other hand produces that even effect. Another thing to look at on real tsuba vs. repros. another thing I would recommend is visiting the repro sites every once in a while to know what they are doing. There is one site in particular that I post every once in a while. I think this guy has some hand finishing or something.

 

http://home.a01.itscom.net/ryuken/main.html

 

Some of these tsube always fool me at least on yahoo.jp. I look just to see what they are making. Some are easy and some are not.

 

Kozuka are another area that is really hard to tell even in hand. I don't have any advice because I am not knowledgeable about them. And I heard there are a ton being made. And don't forget you had items made in the 1950's, etc that have some age or things like the gorum fork / knife sets which are made of some quality but not really samurai stuff. Fun isn't it!

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Good advise by Curran and Rich.

 

While to my semi-trained eye these shout FAKES, I can see how many buyers could be fooled. Sadly when I look at e-bay I think many are already being fooled daily. Many of the ones seen there appear to be nothing more than late period tsuba made for the tourist trade (shirimono).

 

This does not mean to say that there is anything wrong with modern made tsuba, if fact there are some exquisite works out there, and quite pricey as well.

 

In fact I am looking for Gendai Tsuba by "Toshiyuki Tomoaka". If by chance one of you run across works by him, please let me know.

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Hi,

 

I don't know anything about tsuba, I learn a bit through Rich lectures which are as usual as sharp as my Hirosuke tanto, so I am going to give a layman observation (without the technical terms - forgive me):

 

 

First Tsuba : What troubles me is that it seems there are sekigane and the upper one (corresponding to the cutting edge of the blade) seems to be cast or painted, it is the same for the other sekigane though some copper colour is showing. Something definitely fishy ..

 

Second Tsuba : It seems very flat, brand new, no rust and what seems to be file marks clearly visible on the third picture...

 

Once again, if not a specialist (and even ...) avoid e-bay, on-line auctions - unless knowing the Seller ..........

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first link.............. modan re-pro? that's debatable unless one has it in hand and play/fondle with it.

Second link.............. yes, looks like modan.

 

When in doubt buying from online auction............. don't do it . There's plenty that have one or even two papers confirming the authenticity from well recognised organisations ( ala my Kanayama tsuba from e-bay ).

Personal experience here................. the ones that fooled me are all from online auctions . They are things that I wouldn't even consider if I have them in hands at the sword shows.............pictures can be deceptive.

 

milt the ronin

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List-

 

I firmly believe the second one to be a modern.

 

HOWEVER: It has been intelligently argued with me privately that the first one might be real and just suffered a number of sequential abuses. In CSI investigation form, I see real value in the arguements. I don't know if the first one is modern or just an abused antique. I need to take a long look at this one. I did not like the 'rust' in the insides of the sukashi walls. If real, this one would be a project needing classical TLC.

 

I do not like to gamble on ones like this, but I have once or twice before- usually on ones with unique designs.

 

This design lends itself to forgery and has already been seen in modern repros. (In the spirit of Clint Eastwood's "Dirty Harry" character) We have to ask our punk selves "do (we) feel lucky?".

 

By profession, I am a gambler. When it comes to my nihonto hobby, I really am not. Ceasar's praise to those of you who bet this is real and are right.

 

Curran

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