Jump to content

This is suspect.


Recommended Posts

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm..both the same item.

I'm guessing both of them are selling a local item that neither of them has. Or one has it, and the other is trying to sell for a profit.

They both list the item in HK and both have reasonable feedback. But they can't both have the item :D

 

Brian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, the idea is, they are trying to presell the item online, in order to raise the funds to purchase the item from a local, offline, seller for less money? I'm assuming their intention would be to still send the item to the online buyer, since auctioning something online and then not sending it, isn't something someone can get away with too often before getting a reputation, auction accounts locked, etc.

 

I can understand why they would want to do it, not having enough money too hold many items while they sell, but what are the odds of someone trying to do the same thing, for the same item? And how common really is this practice by online sellers in developing countries? The only way you would ever know this is going on, is when cases like this happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have to know your buyer/seller, there are good of both in HK and Singapore.

 

Thank you, Stephen.

Nice to see someone doesn't think we are all thieves in this undeveloped country of ours.

 

Though I have my doubts about the two chaps in the ebay ads...

:badgrin:

I've asked them if I can view the tsuba in person before making an offer.

Holding my breath from now...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Everyone,

 

Another case in point why it is important to purchase from known collectors on NMB or established dealers in various countries. Lately I have notice a few NMB members contacting me via PM after falling victim to similar scams.

 

I am going to start a free search service on my website for tosogu. Please contact through my website or via PM with your requests and I will do my best to find the tosogu.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

KM gets the point I was trying to make. :beer:

 

Buying and selling items takes a LOT of cash. Even if you could turn an item for a 10% profit (huge profit margin), you still need $900 cash to buy the item and hold it while it sells to make $100 profit. Which could take anywhere between days and never, depending on your guess at the market conditions for the item. Which, goes back to my question about how common this practice of pre-selling online might be, not just nihonto, but antiques in general. A lot of great pieces can be found in small little local shops in old world countries, which also tend to be poorer countries. Preselling the item online allows the person to make the profit without putting the cash up front. I have never bought anything on ebay, so I don't know what the turn around time is, ie how long does the person have to go buy the actual item after getting the money from the online sale. But, I am guessing the item would have to be something they can pick up locally and not something they would need shipped to them before they can ship it to the online buyer.

 

All of this assuming the person above is trying to make a mostly honest transaction and not a crook selling multiple fake copies of an actual item, where the online buyer receives an item similar looking to the item they bid on, but not the actual item.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have to know your buyer/seller, there are good of both in HK and Singapore.

 

Thank you, Stephen.

Nice to see someone doesn't think we are all thieves in this undeveloped country of ours.

 

Though I have my doubts about the two chaps in the ebay ads...

:badgrin:

I've asked them if I can view the tsuba in person before making an offer.

Holding my breath from now...

 

 

Nobody said that you are all theives. What is fact is when they talk about phony garbage swords they are most common from China. I would have no problem buying from any country if I new the seller/s were legit. Hard to do if you haven'tdone business before. I very rarely buy anything from anywhere if its on E-Bay without a 100% rating and hundreds or more sales. My choice. You can chose to buy or sell to anyone you like. I prefer to be much more careful with my money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of the best blades I have ever bought online were from sellers with a small amount of feedback who are trying to privately sell their collections.

 

People are too scared to bid on them and you get the item for a steal. Every time Ive bought from an established dealer on on ebay I have been screwed somehow. Even down to winning bidding on an item from someone like kanetoyo2666 who will just refuse to sell it and cancel the sale if the item doesn't go high enough.

 

The only bulk ebay seller who has been honest is imo komonjo and the fact that buyers swarm like flies over what he sells reflects that. Everything he sells is not junk either I can personally attest to that.

 

As soon as you start buying tsuba or fittings from ebay you are asking for trouble because they seem to be very very easy to fake. I was just last week talking to a friend who bought what he thinks is a fake tsuba. We both couldn't even tell if it was just crap or fake.

 

Its a problem because usually if you buy from a dealer you will pay a lot more than what it would cost at auction so you are paying for reputation. You are prob better off educating yourself so that you can tell the difference between real and fake so you can acquire items through the same avenues as dealers.

 

I have personally seen blades that I was thinking about buying, bought at auctions/ebay then show up in a "reputable" dealers inventory. Then marked up at double or more than what was paid for the item. I won't mention names but id like to remove the myth that everything sold on ebay is junk.

 

On the flip side many dealers are fantastic and very honest. I just encourage collectors to think for themselves and not assume because a dealer is on nmb that they are reliable or if the are on ebay they are automatically unreliable ;)

 

I buy blades/items of interest and mark them up slightly to cover my time and get my money back then sell them on purely for the enjoyment of it to people in person in WA to promote the hobby. It is a shame to see items on ebay that could go to a new collector snapped up and sold for ridiculous prices through an established store.

 

Trent S

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I check a lot of things before I bid on any item.

 

Sellers reputation, feedback, other items sold or selling, and bidders.

 

If I bid on an item and get outbid by someone who has only activity with 1 seller which is the one selling the item I know that shill bidding is going on. If a bidder bids on enormous amounts of stuff with various people, whether or not this is in the category or outside of it, he or she is most likely a dealer.

 

I refuse to bid on items in China (except for some sellers I know are genuine), Many Eastern European countries, African countries, depending on what is on sale. Having been the victim of a Romanian/Italian scam with a Samurai Helmet once I have learned to be very careful.

 

0 feedback bidders or sellers are a no go for me.

 

So you can at times buy good things but if you do not know your way around Ebay do not go there. It's that simple really.

 

KM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of us know that Ebay is not the safest way of acquiring this type of stuff. So what keeps us going back? I think it is the gamble; the chance of finding a hidden treasure that the seller overlooked.

 

Although infrequent, it does happen. I talked to a well known collector the other day, who said his best find came from Ebay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ebay is a great place ,if You have done Your homework.

I got my friend Ogawa Kanekuni for 89usd.

 

For every one of those jackpots, there are probably 10,000 or more sad stories....caveat emptor has never been truer, even if you have done your homework...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Everyone,

 

I agree with Jon and Chris. So many people want to find an undiscovered treasure on eBay but then come up with 101 excuses not to attend one of the sword shows across USA and Japan if you include the Dai Token Ichi in Tokyo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some people don't have sword shows to go to.

Im very thankful for ebay/online auction sites, because I have been able to purchase certain swords through auction with current nbthk papers for under $2000 dollars that I would have never been able to afford from a dealer a couple of years ago when I first started collecting. My collection and ability to trade, buy and sell from others was greatly accelerated by ebay and online buying.

I have been able to supply friends in martial arts and new collectors with very cheap blades that they would have never been able to afford from websites like aoi art. (which has beautiful blades btw ;) )

I have never been burned on ebay, sure ive sent several swords back and it has cost me a few hundred dollars shipping. But that is better than being charged double the auction value through certain dealers every single purchase with no hope of ever recovering the paid price.

 

I still think that without education you can be burned anywhere and with education you can be successful in places that others aren't.

 

As I have said before, I watch ebay and I know certain dealers get on there to look for stock. If they can figure it out then so can you.

I have roughly a dozen nihonto at the moment and only started collecting a couple of years ago. My favorite blade is still a 900 dollar long wakizashi that I won bidding on from a US vets family from ebay. I had another collector offer me $2000 dollars for it last year. ;)

 

Trent S

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember buying a wakizashi from a well known Japanese eBay seller, whose name I will not disparage at this time. It had NTHK papers and a rather obvious hagire, that was not disclosed. It was otherwise a beautiful sword. Of course, I sent it back. I even paid shipping. I asked how it could possibly get papers with a hagire. He agreed that it should not have and said he was going to destroy it. I later found the same sword on an Aussie website. I made the collector aware of the hagire. He was very surprised because it had not been disclosed to him either. Point is, if you don't like the gamble, stay out of the eBay game. I think the point has been made well enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one, unless your post is really relevant and adds to the topic..

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...