Katana for comments

[Mark C]

Hi everyone,

 

I recently picked up this Katana in a rough state of repair, covered in surface rust and had the nakago sand blasted, anyway details below:

 

Nagasa = 25 1/8"

Sori = 5/8"

O-Kissaki

Dated - Showa 18 (1943), no arsenal stamps

 

 

I think I have translated the mei correctly as Echigo Kuni Ju Sadakiyo Seitan.

 

Is this correct and what is the meaning of Seitan?

 

Also I have trawled my books and the web for Sadakiyo but can only find Echigo Kuni Ju Kamimure Sadakiyo, this being in the Showa oshigata database but unfortunately this is written is Grass/Soshu script?

 

Does anyone have any additional info on this smith?

 

Many thanks

 

Mark

[Guest Nanshoku-Samurai]

Hello,

 

looks like a quality Gendaito. Could you please also post some pictures of the blade?

[Nobody]

I think I have translated the mei correctly as Echigo Kuni Ju Sadakiyo Seitan.

 

Is this correct and what is the meaning of Seitan?

Hi,

 

Your reading is correct.

Seitan means "devotedly forged".

[Mark C]

Hi Nobody and Nanshoku-Samurai,

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

I have posted a few more pics.

 

As I said, its in a bad state, I have included pics of overall shape, Boshi including general condition of blade and after several hours of finger stoneing, what Hamon there is.

 

Again thanks

 

Mark

[Mark Green]

And your reason for sandblasting the Nakago was???????

I know a bunch of people cringed at thet sight mate. Please don't do that on any old swords.

Mark G :?

[kusunokimasahige]

well............ its his loss if the shinsa masters or valuers value the sword less because of the clean nakago....

 

indeed not a wise thing to have done.....

 

i myself got very angry when some wd 40 spilled on my nakago and as i wiped it off VERY carefully, a millimeter of the upworked metal rim of one of the Mei characters got shiny......

 

KM

[Brian]

I recently picked up this Katana in a rough state of repair, covered in surface rust and had the nakago sand blasted

 

All..

I am pretty sure this was just written wrongly, and he meant "..in a rough state of repair, covered in surface rust and it had had the nakago sand blasted...."

I think he got it like that...didn't do it himself.

 

Brian

[Mark C]

Hi All,

 

Settle down everyone, Before I'm hung, drawn and quartered, I got the sword in this condition.

 

I haven't cleaned anything and although I have only been in the Nihonto world for a few years, one of the many things I have learnt is not to touch the Nakago

 

It was as Brian said, just written wrong.

 

Thanks Brian

 

Mark C

[AndreasU]

Anyhow it`s quite easy to get rust again on the Nakago.............

[kusunokimasahige]

Ah okay Mark, didnt know that hahahahaha

 

so Andrea how do you get rust back then? is it a chemical process? or do you just dip the nakago in sea water?

 

i am interested in knowing about rusting techniques since i dont know squat about rust and how it actually works......

 

i only know it has something to do with oxidisation......

 

 

LoL

 

KM

 

(who once had a stainless steel survival knive and went diving in the sea with it after which it definetely was not stainless nor rust-protected anymore LoL)

[mike yeon]

That's not a bad looking blade. I rather like the sugata, very koto. I know nothing about this smith but since it's a gendai, I wouldn't fret so much about repatinating the nakago. In any case, a togi can advise you on such a thing and I believe it's worth a visit for a complete restoration.

 

Good luck!

 

mike

[AndreasU]

Vinegar and salt are not only good in salad.......

[Brian]

And adding active rust back to a nakago has very little to do with properly restoring age and patina back to a nakago.

 

Brian

[kusunokimasahige]

True brian, and that was exactly my question... how do you patina anything?

 

KM

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

how do you patina anything?

 

Polishers that are able to properly re-patinate a Nakago aren't so much

out there and the ones that know the magic will not share the way easily

because of the problems with fakers.

 

I've heard that amongt other ingredients, the recipe contains old files, crushed cinder blocks and soy sauce.

[Mark Green]

Oh, Sorry dude. My bad.

I wouldn't worry about the patina much. Just let it age out. It is a good looking sword. Would likely make a great cutter for someone.

I know tanic acid works well on repitina jobs. I had one guy tell me that he just used very strong tea. Painted the Nakago with it every day for a month, rubbing it down every 3-4 days. This did a very fair job of turning the steel very dark, with a natural look. The powdered tanic acid works the same way. You get the nice dark color, but you can't get the 'Rust'.

That just takes a few hundred years, unless you do some big cheating.

I have seen many swords that are less than 200yrs old, with tangs that looks koto as heck. Big cheating going on there. That had to be some form of salt water bath, or strong acid, or something like that. Or maybe just a long stay in the south pacific, or Washington St.

Mark G

[Mark C]

Hi Guys,

 

I've learnt Another lesson "Always proof read before posting" :lol:

 

All these suggestions for repatina's sound very interesting but I won't be trying any, the previous owner has played with the Nakago and I have no intention of following them :D

I will let it grow old gracefuly

 

I intend on getting the sword polished and put into shirasaya as the mounts are crap. I will post before and after pictures, if anyones wants.

 

Many thanks for your comments on this sword.

 

Regards

 

Mark C

[roninjje]

If it is gendaito the nakago may not have been cleaned. I've seen cleaner on wwII gendaito.

[Stephen]

please do, let the togi do his magic, cant wait to see the results.

[Ed]

Not that I would condone doing it, but after reading the post regarding tannic acid it reminded me of something from my childhood.

 

As a boy growing up in the deep woods, bayous and swamps of Louisiana, trapping was something we did to make a little extra money. The process of treating the steel traps was to first boil them to remove all oil residue then soak them in a tub of water filled with Oak leaves. The tannic acid in the Oak leaves would give the steel a dark brown/black patina, not rust.

 

I suppose painting a solution such as this on a nakago might produce the same results over time.

[stekemest]

Tannic acid indeed gives the steel a darker color. I use tannic acid for restoring ancient european weapons (which I collect), as it does not only give back a patina-like color to objects which have lost their original patina, but it also has a preserving effect and helps to avoid active rust. I never tried it on Japanese weapons, though.

[Darcy]

Patina is oxidation... any oxidizing agent is going to do *something*. That said, don't screw with it. Who knows what the results will be. I would not dare to touch anything...

 

In terms of the WD-40, the shininess is just the oil component. WD-40 is a combination solvent plus mineral oil. Solvent is lifting off any old crap to make it penetrate and the mineral oil is lubricating. I would not worry too much about it, what you lost was not rust but probably old grime (mix of oil, loose rust, dirt). You could wrap the nakago in clean rice paper or cotton and over time it would blot away the WD-40. WD-40 as a lubricant is pretty bad because the mineral oil is too light to last very long... so over time there will be no harm done I think. It's great for unsticking stuff in the short term of course.

[johnb]

actually there's a product called plumb brown. It's used to repatinate old guns. Best experimented with before applying to anything of real value.

[Bruce Pennington]

On 7/27/2007 at 2:31 PM, Mark C said:

Nagasa = 25 1/8"

Sori = 5/8"

O-Kissaki

Dated - Showa 18 (1943), no arsenal stamps

 

 

I think I have translated the mei correctly as Echigo Kuni Ju Sadakiyo Seitan.

Mark,

Any chance the nakago has numbers stamped on the end of it?  If so, could we get clear pictures of it and both sides of the nakago?  Is it star-stamped?

[Mark C]

Sorry Bruce,

 

No numbers or stars.

 

Regards