Help with Tsuba ID

[echizento]

I'm not a Tsuba person so I know very little about this Iron Katana Tsuba, any information on type and possible school would be appreciated.

[Ford Hallam]

It's an upside down Kamakura bori type tsuba. Circa .16th cent. Needs a bit of tlc but not a bad example.

[Bugyotsuji]

Could it have been in a fire?

[echizento]

Thank You, so it's late Muromachi than?

[Soshin]

Could it have been in a fire?

 

I agree likely fire damaged or just some very serious rust damage. Either way not in very good condition.

[Ford Hallam]

I think it's merely been neglected and has rusted. But to be fair it's over 500 years old, be reasonable. It's still got some appeal, surely? Isn't an appreciation of the effects of age and impermanence at the very heart of the Japanese aesthetics that are held as sacred on this forum?

[echizento]

What can I do to restore and reserve it?

[Ford Hallam]

Send it to someone who knows about this sort of alchemy

[Curran]

Going with early Edo on this one. This is one of the designs that got xeroxed in later Kamakura.

 

I handled the Cary Condell one a few months ago on its way to the new European owner. Beauty and incredibly thin.

Also- Ginza shop just posted a nice one in the June catalog:

See #22:

http://www.choshuya.co.jp/sale/gj/index.htm

 

This one looks heavily rusted, though might have been cooked too.

For the price of repairing it, you can find an identical one with a bit of looking.

[ancientnoob]

Man I really like this tsuba. Its a really neat piece with a lot to look at.

 

Something tells me that Ford, knows who to send it to for conservation... :lol:

[Antti]

This was probably a nice tsuba back in the day, but now... heavily rusted. If cleaned, I wonder what the condition of the thin sukashi would be under all that rust. The 2' O clock spoke of the flower looks very thin as it is.

 

Here is the tsuba the right way around. For some reason I find it difficult to look at one without turning it over.

[Soshin]

Hi All,

 

Looking at the repost of the photo the condition of the iron surface is fairly poor. I can see someone doing some major damage to the thin sukashi if he/she wasn't very careful when dealing with active rust.

[echizento]

A better image with some of the surface rust wiped off.

[Ford Hallam]

Probably worth bearing in mind we're looking at this tsuba at more than double magnification. It's only half as bad as you think :D

[Brian]

Or under magnification, it can be seen that the damage is twice as bad as first thought...

 

Brian

[MarkB]

Hi Ron. Surprise, surprise. I have one which is very similar to yours.

 

Approx 70mm wide and just a little taller. Just thought you might like to see it for comparison.

 

(edit to revise size. it's 70mm, not 60mm as orig. posted. sorry)

[Curran]

Just for historical context, Waterwheel is noted in Japan as early as 718 but largely disappeared from Japan until 1600s.

 

The water-powered quern appeared again early in the Edo era. Historical records

show that one such quern was operated at Yamada near the Aikawa Mine on Sado Island

during the Genroku period (1688-1703) and that another was erected at Takasaki Shuku

in Kdzuke around the beginning of the eighteenth century.8 There are two hypotheses to

explain the revival of the water-powered quern. The first claims that use of the water wheel

for irrigation eventually led to the reapplication of water power for rice cleaning. This

hypothesis has been developed from references to the fact that in 1726 Ichir~emon erected

a water-powered quern at Sano in Shimotsuke.9 Ichir6emon used the Yodo no suisha, a

water wheel employed to draw irrigation water from the Yodo River, as a model for this

quern. The second hypothesis is that the water-powered quern was reintroduced from

abroad. It is argued that the technology either came directly from China and Korea or

was developed in Japan relying on Chinese agricultural textbooks such as Tenk6 Kaibutsu

(1637) and No~sei Zensho (1639).

r

 

I know I've seen it in early Edo Goto work, but was wondering if it had been seen in any ko-kinko or other early works.

[watsonmil]

Dear Mark,

I'm not sure if I'm the Ron you refer to, ... but indeed I am looking for a Waterwheel tsuba to compliment some lovely fittings on a sword I own. I would prefer something at least 75 mm in diameter and 80 mm would really turn my crank. It would be nice to have some waves involved as well ( gold tipped ) ... might as well wish for the moon.

 

... Ron Watson

 

EDIT : On reading the whole thread I can see, ... I'm not the Ron referred to, .... my apologies Mark et al.

[cabowen]

There were a few Edo era waterwheels used to grind wheat for soba near me in Shizuoka....

[MarkB]

I wonder if any knowledgeable person would care to comment on the differences between RonR's tsuba and my own?

 

I don't see so much kamakura bori style on mine and think it is later.