Information on No-sada

[Blundemo]

Hi all,

 

I have carefully researched this smith through Oshigata, books and internet image searches of past blades that were for sale. There is one word that pops into my head when researching this smith: "irregular". He made many copies and worked in different styles. Most blades that I have seen look like they were each made by someone different, yet have his signature on the tang. What are some key features to look for in No-sada blades, besides a well forged jigane?

 

Thank you

[runagmc]

Well, probably the most obvious is the unique "no" form of "sada" that he used for part of his working life. Less obvious features are clearer jitestsu and all around better forging, as you have already mentioned...

 

This is just from what I have read and seen, so others may be able to give much better answers...

[Travis Clarke]

Branson,

 

As Adam already mentioned, one thing worth noting are the changes in mei styles during this smiths working life. His early works display the "SADA" character cut with the "E" shaped "MAKOTO" character. Later on the lower part of the "SADA" character looks like the "NO" character in some works, hence the name "NOSADA". From around 1503 the lower part of the "SADA" character was cut with the "KORE" character which is "Z" shaped. This smith was occasionally referred to as "KORESADA" because of this. Some of his work is also signed with a KIKU MON.

 

Some key features to look for would be a high SHINOGI, a very active hamon that displays gunome choji, o-midare/notare and hoso-suguha. The hamon displays mainly nioi with small amounts of nie.

 

This smith is said to be the only KANESADA to receive the title of "Izumi No Kami" around 1511.

 

I'm sure someone else will jump in here as well, hope this helps.

[Darcy]

He was a bit of a virtuoso, able to work in multiple traditions.

 

He made very good copies of Rai work, and Yamashiro is pretty polar opposite from Mino.

 

He was capable of making very fine nie and exhibited a lot of control over his hamon. I had an interesting piece where he had copied Kanemoto style and arguably did a better job of it than nidai Kanemoto.

 

In my opinion he is the most skilled Mino smith other than Shizu.

 

 

Macro image of the jigane in this sword, fine and tight with great control.

 

[John A Stuart]

Here is a little write up from my site about him. My favourite smith of them all. John

" Kanesada II was a Sai-jo saku rated smith and noted for the sharpness of his swords (Saijo o-wazamono) and was active around the Eisho (1504-1521) period in the second half of the Muromachi era. He was named Yoshizaemonojo and had a few styles of mei. Originally signing with the kanji for 'sada' 定 meaning 'truth' (makoto) around the Meio period he used the sosho form of 'sada' which resembles the kanji for 'no' 之, hence his nickname "Nosada". Approximately Eisho 8 he received the title 'Izumi no Kami'. In Eisho 14 he worked in Seishu no Kuni (Ise province), town of Yamada and the 'kiku mon' was inscribed on some of these swords. He was born around 1425 in Akasaka where he was taught by his father the shodai Kanesada of the Shizu Ha , but, moved to Seki, an important sword producing area at the time. This is one of those cases where it becomes doubtful his reported birthdate is accurate, since it would have him actively producing swords at near 100 years of age, and reported as dying at the age of 111. I suspect he was born nearer the mid-15th century."

For the reason why Seki was a major sword producing area, see; http://www.johnstuart.biz/new_page_5.htm mid page. J

[Jean]

http://www.nihonto.ca/nosada/index.html

[Veli]

I had an interesting piece where he had copied Kanemoto style and arguably did a better job of it than nidai Kanemoto.

 

Great photos, as always

 

Considering that pointed and highly regular sanbonsugi - like the one seen in your photos - evolved after nidai Kanemoto... could it be that later generation Kanemoto adopted some traits of the famous Nosada? So this example could be Nosada's view how he thought the sanbonsugi should look like and not a direct copy of Nidai Kanemoto's work?

 

Veli

[John A Stuart]

There are competing reasons for this form. They were brothers of a sort, taught by Kanesada I, so; as tribute, together, one forged and the other did yaki-ire, experimental. Any of those or none. John

[Blundemo]

Thank you all for the additional info. A high shinogi and thin kasane is common; it is available on many mino and yamato blades. The hamon is what trumps me because he made many different styles. The most common seems to be variations of gunome midare. Some are o-midare while others are done in ko-gunome or, even more rarely, sanbonsugi like the example Mr. Darcy showed. Some blades with gunome midare hamon appear to resemble 1st gen. Muramasa.

 

Here is a juyo example of Nosada that sold for 12 million yen:

 

http://www.tsuruginoya.com/mn1_3/f00182.html

 

and a tired example that looks completely different:

 

http://www.tsuruginoya.com/mn1_3/f00127.html

 

Others:

 

http://www.nipponto.co.jp/swords/JT988870.htm

 

http://www.nipponto.co.jp/swords/KT121578.htm

 

http://www.nipponto.co.jp/swords/KT120301.htm

 

http://www.premi.co.jp/k-nosada%20130725.html

 

You will understand when I say "irregular". Japanese translated books that I have read attempt to slap one characteristic on him, but it is simply not that easy.

[Blundemo]

Here is a little write up from my site about him. My favourite smith of them all. John

" Kanesada II was a Sai-jo saku rated smith and noted for the sharpness of his swords (Saijo o-wazamono) and was active around the Eisho (1504-1521) period in the second half of the Muromachi era. He was named Yoshizaemonojo and had a few styles of mei. Originally signing with the kanji for 'sada' 定 meaning 'truth' (makoto) around the Meio period he used the sosho form of 'sada' which resembles the kanji for 'no' 之, hence his nickname "Nosada". Approximately Eisho 8 he received the title 'Izumi no Kami'. In Eisho 14 he worked in Seishu no Kuni (Ise province), town of Yamada and the 'kiku mon' was inscribed on some of these swords. He was born around 1425 in Akasaka where he was taught by his father the shodai Kanesada of the Shizu Ha , but, moved to Seki, an important sword producing area at the time. This is one of those cases where it becomes doubtful his reported birthdate is accurate, since it would have him actively producing swords at near 100 years of age, and reported as dying at the age of 111. I suspect he was born nearer the mid-15th century."

For the reason why Seki was a major sword producing area, see; http://www.johnstuart.biz/new_page_5.htm mid page. J

 

Mr. John,

 

Are you sure he was called Yoshizaemon? I have seen an example where he signed as "Kichizaemon"

 

http://www.iidakoendo.com/info/item/a089.htm

[John A Stuart]

Fujishiro; "Page 107

KANESADA IZUMI NO KAMI [EISHÔ 1504 MINO] SUEKOTÔ SAIJÔSAKU

Son of shodai Kanesada, also seems to have been called Yoshizaemonnojô. Around the beginning of Meiô he signed Kanesada with the "Makoto" (truth) character for "sada". From around the later years or Meiô he cut the "sada" in the grass writing character, and since the portion under the crown of this looks like the character for "No", he is called "Nosada". Around Eishô 8, he received the name of Izumi no Kami, and in the fourteenth year of this same era he also produced in Seishû Yamada, and there are also some of his works inscribed with the "Kiku Mon", or the Imperial Chrysanthemum. Along with Gôroku Kanemoto, he is a swordsmith representative of Mino Seki. His works include a very active hamon of nioi shimari gonome choji with a koshiba of moto gonome choji in sugu, and ô-midare with a hint of notare nado. He has many work styles, and his togariha-gokoro cannot be dismissed. Musori is frequent in his tantô. (Saijô Ôwazamono) "

[Blundemo]

Fujishiro; "Page 107

KANESADA IZUMI NO KAMI [EISHÔ 1504 MINO] SUEKOTÔ SAIJÔSAKU

Son of shodai Kanesada, also seems to have been called Yoshizaemonnojô. Around the beginning of Meiô he signed Kanesada with the "Makoto" (truth) character for "sada". From around the later years or Meiô he cut the "sada" in the grass writing character, and since the portion under the crown of this looks like the character for "No", he is called "Nosada". Around Eishô 8, he received the name of Izumi no Kami, and in the fourteenth year of this same era he also produced in Seishû Yamada, and there are also some of his works inscribed with the "Kiku Mon", or the Imperial Chrysanthemum. Along with Gôroku Kanemoto, he is a swordsmith representative of Mino Seki. His works include a very active hamon of nioi shimari gonome choji with a koshiba of moto gonome choji in sugu, and ô-midare with a hint of notare nado. He has many work styles, and his togariha-gokoro cannot be dismissed. Musori is frequent in his tantô. (Saijô Ôwazamono) "

 

Fujishiro's description on Nosada is the best I have read thus far. Thank you for sharing this; this bit of text is very helpful, especially the description of the hamon. Perhaps he was called Yoshizaemonnojo later in life and Kichizaemon in his earlier years seeing as that sword I posted is one of his early works.

[runagmc]

Hi, in the last link, the character they have read as 'kichi' can also be read 'yoshi'...

[Blundemo]

Hi, in the last link, the character they have read as 'kichi' can also be read 'yoshi'...

 

You are correct; my mistake. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

吉: Kichi or Yoshi

[cabowen]

I have handled a fair number of Nosada blades over the years and what I have noticed about the majority of them is their uchi-gatana shape-light and well balanced in the hand. Saki-zori and a thin kasane. Also, in most of them done in the Mino tradition, the hamon is quite organic looking. Many fakes of his work..

[John A Stuart]

There is one thing I noticed with him and Kanemoto that struck me as very telling. Both Nosada and Magoroku at their midpoint of work show a difference in the appearance of their steel. Earlier works have a jigane of that darker steel one associates with Kamakura swords and their later work show that brighter steel common in Muromachi period swords and shinto for sure. I had not noticed it until I saw about 40-45 of them all together in an exhibit in Gifu, which may never again be possible. I wonder if there was something that happened at that time which caused this. A change in tatara methods, different source of tamahagane, outsourcing for steel rather than making their own? There are no records that I have found, but, it is interesting. John

[BIG]

Fantastic Sir,

 

Do You have Some pictures from that very Day ?

 

Best regards

[John A Stuart]

No pics allowed and I am not sneaky enough to take any. They did have a fantastic book available on these two smiths that is now my Nosada/Kanemoto bible. John

[Blundemo]

No pics allowed and I am not sneaky enough to take any. They did have a fantastic book available on these two smiths that is now my Nosada/Kanemoto bible. John

 

Mr. John,

 

I think I know which book you're talking about, but I have not been able to find any sellers. Those who do sell it never respond to my inquiries. Do you happen to know a seller of this book? Mino blades are of my main interest, particularly Kanesada and Kanemoto.

[John A Stuart]

Here is the book. I brought some back, but, have only one left. I think Satcho had some. John

[BIG]

No

[NihontoEurope]

Hello,

 

I can see a difference of opinion when it comes to dates. Some claim Bunmei and some Eisho for No-Sada.

Shodai Bunmei and Nidai Eisho, where Nidai supposedly is No-Sada and Shodai is Oya.

 

I can also find different origin in terms of school influence.

 

Some of you might have more dates and info?