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Plz define Shiremono, hamamono, and "presentation" tsuba....


kaigunair

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My recent purchase (currently on its way to S. Africa!) has got me wondering about these terms. Is there a difference between the terms shiremono and hamamono?

Shiremono = any mass produced type work (?)

Hamamono = large pieces of mass produced work made for export (?)

 

Lastly, is there a term for "presentation" tsubas? i.e., tsubas that were never meant to be mounted but made to be given as gifts? Is there even such an official classification of tsuba? I recall a thread saying that just because a signature was placed on the rear (or not-as-detailed") face, this didn't make it a presentation tsuba, as smiths were inclined to do whatever they want. I was wondering if perhaps this statement is more apt for older iron tsubas, while tsubas made in the late Edo/meiji period perhaps followed this convention? By that late time, nihonto in general was more for show than for use, so perhaps the accepted convention was more established by then regarding signature placement? I'm not in anyway referring to goto pieces that was given as gifts, as they were definitely made for mounting (and they didn't make tsuba early on).

 

Well, ready to be schooled by the board members!

Yoroshiku onegaishimasu :bowdown:

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Ah yes, that one. Wow..I really look forward to the after photos of that one..gonna be stunning.

Check this out: http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/hamamono.html

There are sword mounts or sword fittings those were made in the days after samurai age end (Meiji era) as souvenir for foreign tourists.

Many craftsmen had lost their customer by Samurai government disappear. Then they had found a new customer, tourists from the West.

We often see such things, and call them "Hama-mono" or "Hama-yuki" in slang. That means "things for Yokohama" or "going to Yokohama". Yokohama was a harbour where many Japanese things were exported to the West.

Hama-mono is made as one of fine Japanese art, but no samurai spirit.

They weren't all made to be sold ay Yokohama, but the term became synonymous with these types of fittings. Shiiremono means "received commodity" and is another word for basically the same thing.

 

Brian

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Brian,

 

Thanks for that info. Does this mean that any tsuba not meant to be mounted (regardless of quality) is automatically considered made for export and for the foreign market?

 

I'm questioning whether there was no market or practice in Japan of commissioning or making large tsubas to be given as gifts in the domestic market. a nice tsuba made for the purpose of being appreciated as an unmounted nice tsuba. I can understand if this practice increased with the interest in the West for Japanese objects, but was there such a practice preceeding this "export market" driven production.

 

hope that clarifies my question....

 

(hmmm...so does this make me ghost rider or tom cruise? I'll take the former for the f-16, but the latter is kinda wacky :crazy: I meant no disrepect at all and am normally far from a tower buzzer... :bowdown: )

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Junichi-

 

Yes. Saw quite a number in the 1850s & 1860s.

Attached:

 

NBTHK Tobuketsu Hozon

Commissioned piece for Mr. Taima c.1856(?)

Signed on the back on the open area: Yasuchika w/ Kao

 

(6th gen Yasuchika, aka Masachika. Took over the school.

not to be confused with 1st Gen. Gen 2 to 5 were in decline, then revival as with Ichijo of Goto school).

post-51-14196856593177_thumb.jpg

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Lovely example Curran. Thanks! Looks like Japanese natives were commissioning them for gifts at that late date. You say most of these pop up in the 19th century?

 

John, AH! Kenjo Tsuba Thanks again! From another website, it states that kenjo refers to gifts given from one damyo to another. So this might point to an older practice and the term *might* preclude the lesser work (i.e. shiremono), esp if its supposed to be a gift to a feudal lord. (unless you didn't like the guy, nor value your life.... :oops: )

 

Oh to be such a discerning collector that people would shower me with such gifts (or the one who holds your life in his hands)! When it comes to kinko tsuba collecting, its hard enough not to be the one "...whose money is soon departed..."

 

Domo arigato gozaimasu, sempai-sans!

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Lovely example Curran. Thanks! Looks like Japanese natives were commissioning them for gifts at that late date. You say most of these pop up in the 19th century?

 

John, AH! Kenjo Tsuba Thanks again! From another website, it states that kenjo refers to gifts given from one damyo to another. So this might point to an older practice and the term *might* preclude the lesser work (i.e. shiremono), esp if its supposed to be a gift to a feudal lord. (unless you didn't like the guy, nor value your life.... :oops: )

 

Hi Junichi-san,

 

It is good that John and Curran has set you straight as it looked from how you worded your question that you didn't know that presentation tsuba often used on swords that were gifts given to or by Daimyo (feudal lords) have been around for a while. I would say from the early Edo Period i.e. 17th century. Many tsuba from different schools have been presentation tsuba at some point. I know one story of a Kaneie tsuba being a presentation "kenjo" tsuba. Here is a tsuba in my collection that I think is a kenjo tsuba: http://dastiles1.wix.com/reflections-#!Composite-and-Art-View/zoom/c211q/image114l. Notice also that my tsuba shows signs of being used and mounted on a sword. I don't think they have any connection to shiremono made during the Meiji Period for export to the west. Shiremono were often not mounted on a sword.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

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David, kenjo or not, that is a very lovely tsuba. Seems like its a good size too. Appreciate the info and confirmation.

 

The great responses have gotten me thinking about this topic more. Once I get my thoughts together, I'll start another thread on what might be an interesting theory of mine....

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I wish I had a photo of a tsuba a member of the mid atlantic token kai had shared many years ago. It was just beautiful craftsmanship, beautiful clean use of lot of different metals. Then as the owner is taking it out, he flips this undetectable latch and the top plate pops out, spring loaded and becomes a stand leg (was the size of like an oseppa). The "tsuba" stood up to display. It was so well done that when closed the piece you couldn't really even see the seams all around and it was spring loaded. Closed it looked like a fancy tsuba. Tourist piece or not, whatever it was, it was really a true piece of craftsmanship. I remember everyone around the table looking at in awe- it was just so unique and so well done.

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Hi Ken W.,

 

Thanks for the story I was once told you were a member of that group. I for one would like to see such a literal presentation tsuba. Nice tsuba can be found regardless of label or classification. Currently me and Jack F. are the only members of that group that are heavily into tosogu.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

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Hey David,

 

I lived in chestertown and even though it took an hour and half to get there it was a great place to learn. The group has a real history and there was some good guys that have been around a while. The "older crew" would stop in from time to time so you never knew what you could see. I had some old newsletters when they were in their heyday, with Bob Benson and some of the others. It was interesting to read those old newsletters- I still have them. I think in some ways since they had even less information readily available it made the groups closer. Just hearing their stories was fun when you could buy swords by the bucketful, etc. I didn't know Jack well, I don't think he came often when I was there but he did go through a few pieces with me once. If I am thinking of the right guy. Dale was really helpful to me. Shoot, I am so bad with names, there was a retired doctor who was into some fittings- why can't remember his name? oh yeah Dr. Jay G.. Anyway, When I got divorced I moved back to NY so I obviously couldn't go to meetings there anymore. I will always have fond memories as it was the first group where I was able to hold and share pieces. It was always hosted nicely by Steve (I don't know the status of the group now). Since it is more of an informal group than other clubs it was sort of a nice secret. Although reading the old newsletters, it was more formal back then and had a membership of a lot of names of famous/serious American collectors. A far cry from when I got together with John Elyias (the jss us newsletter editor) in Pittsburgh. 2 guys that knew next to nothing but were able to share a few items together as we started our collecting journey. Meeting John for the first time I also realized my Japanese pronunciation is horrendous having only read a few books. To this day, I have to translate Japanese terminology into Ken Japanese and then into English. ok enough of my personal reminiscing. I hope you enjoy it and the group still goes on.

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Hi Ken W.,

 

The group is still meeting every few months during fall, winter, and spring lead by Dale G. I do remember the elderly Japanese gentlemen you are referring to who owned the very nice presentation tsuba. I havn't seen him at a meeting for a while and heard his health prevents him from attending. :(

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

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