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Did anyone visit "Evangelion and Nihonto" at Osafune Museum?


Drago

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(Please move if neccessary.)

 

Hi.

 

I am aware that most of us members are Western and many are older than my generation (I'm mid 20). But maybe you'll find this interesting:

 

From July to September, the Bizen Osafune sword musem hosted an exhibition called "Evangelion and Nihonto" about an anime franchise ("Neon Genesis Evangelion") and smiths tried to recreate the swords used in this franchise using tradtional methods.

 

A short description and some really nice photos can be seen here: http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2 ... on-exhibit

 

Did anyone go to check it out with their own eyes? Was it worth it?

 

And if you did: Did you buy the official brochure? There's one on eBay and it's pretty expensive. I'd be interested, but only if it contains good photos and descriptions.

 

Have a nice weekend.

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Yes, mixed in with other themes, we kind of discussed this as it developed on pp 148-152 of this thread (eg 2nd post on p 152):

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2554&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=Evangelion+Longinus&start=2265

 

I happened to go there on some other related business. Since I had heard some negative feedback I wasn't expecting much, but the exhibit itself turned out to be a refreshingly unusual and surprisingly pleasant experience. :clap:

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Now I know I am past my sell by date.

Looking at this feels a bit like seeing your favourite painter or writer contributing to a comic strip.

It looks like an easy lesson in how to denegrate an art form which has survived and been cherished for 1000 years.

I cannot believe that craftsmen who suposedly regard their work as a spirtual calling could allow themselves to be involved in the production of something like this. I think it is a very sad reflection on the modern world.

Regards

Paul B

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Paul, yes there was strong opposition within the museum staff and supporters to the ’Sengoku Basara' one they did last summer http://www.famitsu.com/news/201108/12048373.html

 

and again to Evangelion this summer.

 

The first weekend after it opened in July this year saw about 5,000 visitors, which was an incredible record. Then it seemed to drop off until August when it really picked up again. The numbers (40,000?) were overwhelming and surpassed last year.

 

Young people came with their families, and there was something for everyone. Interest in Nihonto has been dropping off steadily over the years, and something fresh was needed. The general opinion is that despite the tenuous at best connection between 'Evangelion' and proper Japanese swords, somehow this exhibition bridged a gap and kindled an interest in Nihonto in many people who would not have been touched in any other way.

 

On balance... :dunno:

 

(PS Drago's link above does not work for me.)

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I agree with what Piers says. Our youth needs a popular tie-in to expose this ancient craft to a general public. Pop culture is a big draw for the younger crowd. Even us older folk for the most part were brought to our interest in Japanese arms/armour by something else. Old movies, literature or through course of study etc. I hope more and more events like this attract increased interest while maintaining the dignity it deserves. Once interest is engendered the wheat may be seperated from the chaff through those continuing with serious study. John

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John and Piers,

I appreciate I am being a bit extreme in my view and am in danger of turning in to a total kill joy. If it is any excuse I also felt the same way about Star wars and Harry Potter exhibitions in the Royal Armouries, although in fairness to them they didnt try and incorporate real weapons in to their shows.

 

I absolutely agree that we need to increase interest in a new generation the question is how is this best done. I have watched youngsters sitting spellbound while perfomance artists gave accounts of episodes in English history at the Armouries.

There is a great difference between that and linking what is a major national work of art and world history in to a B movie cartoon series.

I think the point John made "attract increased interest while maintaining the dignity it deserves." is what I am gettnig at.

I am not sure how having tradionally made blades being waved about by teenage comic characters is supposed to inspire the next generation of sword lovers.

I can accept that you need something like this event to bring people to the building. Waht I dont think you need is to degrade the art form by making it part of a cheap exhibition.

 

Bottom line is I think the subject if presented correctly is pull enough to inspire youngsters we dont need to rely on links to fanatasy films. The reality holds sufficient fascination. Linkng it to cheap short term popular culture is not the route to creating a sustained interest.

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Groan!!

 

You are not making it any easier for me to decide on whether my wife & I will put on a presentation & iaido demonstration for the Kawaii Kon anime exhibition next March. We've been asked to do this so that the younger generations will become more interested in Nihonto. My Board & I decided that we would not participate as the Japanese Sword Society of Hawaii for many of the same reasons Paul addresses, & that leaves Linda & me to make our own decision.

 

I'm frankly not sure which approach we would take. Just talking about the katana as a weapon won't mean much to a bunch of fans who are interested in magical weapons, & showing an iaido demo will only illustrate how the real world limits what we can do....

 

Any ideas from current anime/manga fans on the forum?

 

Aloha!

Ken

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Ken, I was having lunch with the Director of the Museum today and asked him how the Mamori-gatana exhibition is going, and what their plans for the future are. The Mamori-gatana are, with one exception, modern Tanto creations by living artists. Not exactly drawing huge crowds.

 

As to the future, he looked excited and started talking about the exhibit they are preparing for February. Apparently he has a direct inner line to the Hayashibara collection and they have told him he can have virtually any sword he requests. At present he has chosen about 36 valuable old Osafune swords, Tokubetsu Juyo, historically and artistically, Nagamitsu, this-a-mitsu and that-a-mitsu, etc., and this exhibit will run for six weeks from early Feb. Not only are the blades all top drawer, they mostly come with real old koshirae which are almost equally unusual and interesting. The lighting at Osafune is much better than at Hayashibara which is rather dark and gloomy and designed for showing screens and other artifacts, so we Joe Public will be able to see previously unseen workings in the blade steel during this special period.

 

Then from April he has another source that will provide them with more exciting finds for a different exhibition. Long tachi hono-to from a famous Jinja collection, if they can get the head of the shrine to give the go-ahead.

 

So you can see that although they did indeed provide their exhibition rooms for anime-related themes during the summer, this has not detracted from their proper function, indeed it just added another dimension, which came, and then went. They have not been 'polluted' by what happened, and it has not ruined their reputation, as far as I am aware, but it seemed to me that Evangelion was just one exhibit of many.

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Hi Piers,

Just for the record my main concern wasnt that the museum might be poluted (your term not mine) I can understand them utilising exhibition space and drawing crowds in .So while not necessarily comfortable I could understand why they would do it. My biggest cocern was that modern smiths have used their skills to produce fantasy weapons, suggesting it was somehow adding to their art form. Sorry I just dont agree with that idea. I accept that I may be in the moniroty and frankly my opinion is totally irrelevent to what they will or wont do in the future, but I just think it is wrong.

The forthcoming exhibitions sound great even to a non Bizen enthusiast like me. I am very envious of your ability to attend

Regards

Paul

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Hello Paul, I understand what you are saying and in some measure agree with you. I think they did it for a bit of fun, but apparently they spent many hours, days and weeks getting for example the lance of Longinus exactly 'right' (to stay within the law among other things).

 

My last post above was really addressing the concerns of poor Ken in Hawaii, and I agree that 'polluted' is a bit strong but it was my choice of word. :glee: Aloha!

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Gentlemen,

 

Like it or not, the majority of the younger people that are familiar with nihonto, are so because of popular culture. Even some of the older collectors I bet started this hobby because of a Kurosawa film they saw. I was fascinated by Japanese culture from a young age, but you know what made decide to go and get a samurai sword?

 

Watching Kill Bill... :roll:

 

I started with a wall-hanger, then I moved to Paul Chen replicas, and finally when I could afford it, I started collecting the real thing. And of course my knowledge and respect for this art moved from popular culture curiosity to proper and serious study.

 

If sword societies started taking these geeky anime/martial arts conventions a bit more seriously, then it would speed up the process of someone becoming properly interested in the art, and of course it would increase the number of people that may become properly involved in collecting in the future.

 

Unfortunately our hobby is suffering from a certain amount of elitism and pompousness and it could certainly use some fresh blood by having more young people involved in it.

 

For the sake of the future survival of the art, this was a very smart move from the smiths that were involved in the Evangelion project.

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This developed into an interesting discussion. I have to admit, I didn't expect that.

 

My opinion is this:

Of course events like these are neccessary to attract younger generations to Nihonto. I was always interested in swords and weapons, but it was only after watching "Rurouni Kenshin", "Sengoku Basara" and "Hakuouki" that I became really interested in Nihonto and bought my first sword a year ago. So if it helps, why not? And in modern Japanese (or Western) society you can't just send people into museums to check "dusty" exhibits, have them read books or tell them how good the old times were. That just won't work (for most of society). You need to do something flashy.

 

As for the question of tradition vs. modern:

As a history teacher I am well aware of the merits and risks of tradition. Traditions need to be kept going so they won't be forgotten. But let's face it, being a tradition means something is "dead to the world of today" and it is only being kept going by reapeating what people did in the past. Nihonto "died" with the Heitorei Edict and even if swords were still being made, they weren't really necessary anymore. Before that there had been a constant evolution of blades and koshirae to fit the need of the time. The only real development after the Haitorei was the development of the Gunto koshirae. And perhaps better sciences to get a better forging quality. The forging technique and how koshirae were made and looked basically stayed the same.

I think doing something like the smiths did here helps not just to keep a tradition going but also to keep Nihonto "alive". To keep something alive you have to develop it. Of course, to get a Nihonto it needs to be traditionally forged using traditional methods (and perhaps materials). So that means you can only develop horimono, blade shapes and koshirae further to fit the modern „needs and tastes“.

 

(I know that all that above was a bit risky, please don't kill me for it.)

 

And I think they did a pretty good job at all of that.

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Dimitri,

I have no doubt I can be as pompous as the next and probably am.

What I find less acceptable is the increasingly frequent use of the term elitist or elitism. Every time someone tries to raise the bar a little, introduce a slightly higher level of questioning or understanding it seems to be lablelled as Elitist. If someone aspires to buy or, God forbid, buys something above the average the label comes out again. So If aspiring to achieve the best I can and learn as much as I can is elitist then yes I am and am happy to be so.

Inspiring younger people does not necessarily require dumbimg down (sorry I was trying to think of something equally insulting to the elitist tag you seem to want to apply the other way) What is required is enthusiasm and inspiration. Many of the best teachers I have ever met never cheapened their subject in an attempt to broaden the appeal. They spent time informing people why their subject was worthy of study.

We will continue to disagree on this and you may well be proven right. I still think making blades in this way does absolutely nothing for this art form.

BTW Tobias there are many, including me, that would argue very strongly that no science has improved the quality of forging in the 20th century. I do not believe anyone in the 19th, 20th or 21st century has come near the quality of forging achieved in the Kamakura period.

Regards

Paul

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Hi Tobias,

In an attempt to brief I might have sounded a bit aggressive, that wasnt my intention. When I first started collecting swords in the 1980s I bought what I could afford which was basically showato. I spent ages trying to convince myself, firstly that they were gendaito and then that if they were, the quality of steel and forging was every bit as good as koto or shinto work. As I studied more, looked at more and hopefully understood more I realised I was kidding myself. The process is ongoing and I am still staggered as I look at more early work to see just how good it is.

There have been extremely talented smiths from all eras of sword making history. However my personal opinion is that the very best were working from the mid to the end of the kamakura period (13th to mid 14th century) and that no one has ever achieved better quality than some of the smiths working at that time.

sorry for going off topic. If you want to discuss this further please feel free to pm me

best regards

Paul

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Having a debate about elitism would be probably of topic. I didn't direct the comment to any individual or to the forum as a whole. But it is an issue that affects younger or new collectors of nihonto. And the problem is not when more experienced collectors raise the bar, but when younger or poorer collectors buy lesser blades, because either they can't afford to spend more or simply don't want to spent a vast amount for a sword. Sometimes they get unfairly ridiculed for their choices.

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Dimitri,

I agree with you and the elitism topic doesnt need to take up space here. I also agree that it is as important to encourage new collectors. All of us have started pretty much the same way. We buy what we can afford and hope it is better than it probably is. With time and commitment we improve our collections. that is the nature of the subject. No one should be ridiculed for making a start on what is a very challenging road.

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@Paul: I might take you up on that offer later. Thanks.

 

@topic: Yes, please let's stay on the topic. As the thread starter, I think a discussion about "tradition vs. modern" is possible and perhaps even warranted in this topic, but "elitism" doesn't belong here. And I think there has been plenty of that in other topics as well.

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Some good points have been made regarding getting beginners into this hobby and and pros/cons of elitism... as far as I can see, there were three very good reasons to visit this exhibition :glee: :

 

post-1647-14196847673966_thumb.jpg

 

post-1647-1419684767699_thumb.jpg

 

post-1647-14196847678476_thumb.jpg

 

 

I think this one is my favorite :oops: :

 

post-1647-14196847679907_thumb.jpg

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