SOLID SILVER SEPPA - CLEAN or LEAVE IT BE?

[NihontoEurope]

Hello,

 

I have a Koshirae fitting with a pair of solid silver Seppa.

 

Should I clean/polish it or leave it as is?

 

/Martin

[bmoore1322]

I would not clean it.

 

 

Brian

[b.hennick]

Learn to love the patina - leave it.

[NihontoEurope]

Thank you for the comments!

 

I will take the advice aboard.

 

/Martin

[hybridfiat]

I have to ask this; did the seppa originally have a patina or would they have been like my 3 silver habeki and have been polished to within and inch of their lives then scored and fitted?

Allowing these habeki to tarnish would not be upholding the original intent of the maker or owner.

Just a question

[watsonmil]

Dear Steve, and Martin,

There are antiques where patina ( discoloration ) is admired and there are antiques where polishing is the normal practice. I would suggest after having spent nearly 40 years handling and dealing with antiques of ALL types, ... that SILVER is NEVER allowed to tarnish whether it be on a Georgian Tea Service or a Japanese Sword ( fittings ). Martin ...I give you full marks for noting the difference. It matters little to me Steve whether you polish your seppa or not, ... they are your property. As a collector of Japanese Art ( I've never sold Japanese Antiques as they are of personal interest ), .... but I have never heard of such rubbish as to leave silver to go black with patina as it WILL given enough time. The advice you were given previous to Steven is directly related to a lack of knowledge relating to patina and antiques in general. If patina on all antiques is so important why do these same individuals relish having a polished sword rather than a rusty one ! For goodness sake polish the seppa as would a Samurai if there were any left !

... Ron Watson

[John A Stuart]

I am afraid I would keep the silver habaki clean. In the normal cleaning and oiling of the sword I give the habaki a rub with MF cloth and do not allow a build up of that black tarnish (sulphides). I have solid silver fittings on koshirae which I allow to keep the natural patina, meaning, no polish, but, keep them well away from the ambient atmosphere of my house as I burn oil for heat and this does increase the sulphur in the air. In my mind to allow this to build up on the habaki would display carelessness in maintenance of the sword. Patination can be beautiful, but, on silver must be controlled to some extent. John

[sanjuro]

The above having been said, I agree that silver habaki, seppa etc should be kept as they were intended and polished. (or rather not allowed to tarnish) The silver foiling of seppa was to produce a polished and bright finish, as were habaki. Dammit! why have a silver habaki or seppa that has been allowed to become tarnished. Tarnish isnt always patina, Wabi, Sabi or some other esoteric accumulation of crud. Sometimes its just plain lack of attention. The trick is to distinguish desirable patina from common or garden variety dirt and tarnish.

A caveat however......... There was a patinated silver finish which we call oxidised silver, Basically a dull blackish sort of appearance, which was intentional and not meant to be cleaned. It is rather a dull and finely granulated finish by comparison to silver that was intended to be polished, and should be easily distinguished.

[nagamaki - Franco]

Silver pieces were or should have been originally treated to produce a long lasting patina like that beautiful blue hue you sometimes see on solid silver habaki that if not messed with would be just fine, that is until some uninformed nihonto owner comes along with the tarnish remover thinking the silver needs to be shiny, or the shibuichi or shakudo need to be copper looking, but no worries as the artisans that earn a living restoring a sword collector's blunders can always use the additional work. And if your silver is already tarnishing to something other than a nice patina chances are someone has already beat you to the tarnish remover previously.

[John A Stuart]

You can patinate sterling silver using a lead sulphide solution (with ammonia sometimes) and depending on solution strengths and heating and time create various colours. Black, grey,red, brown, blue or purple. It has its place in certain instances where an antique finish is desirable. However on habaki it is not desirable after all this is a replaceable part, changed as new polishes or extreme wear warrants, quite apart from the other tousogu and different from the patinas applied to shibuichi or shakudo. I suppose if it appeals to have this appearance to a person it causes no harm, but, personally it detracts from the overall look. How many times have I seen the ugliest of habaki on good swords whether they are made of copper, shakudo, gold or silver foil, one piece, two piece. It is as if this is an overlooked part and any condition acceptable. John

[nagamaki - Franco]

John, what does a habaki being a replaceable part have to do with giving it a treated finish to protect it from tarnishing?

[sanjuro]

Franco.

 

Silver pieces were or should have been originally treated to produce a long lasting patina like that beautiful blue hue you sometimes see on solid silver habaki

 

Since you make this claim, clearly you are familiar with the practice. Would you care to educate us as to that process, or is this just an assumption??

We are talking about silver here. I'm sure that we all know the difference when one is dealing with shibuichi and shakudo which were not only patinated but deliberately alloyed to allow their patination. Clearly, the deliberate patination of such alloys is intended to fix a certain discolouration, and should not be cleaned away. Plain unalloyed silver on the other hand is only patinated by sulphides, and that beautiful blue you refer to is merely an early stage in normal tarnishing. How did the artisan fix the tarnishing process at this given point?

[John A Stuart]

To respond to Franco; the habaki is subject to wear as it wedges and unwedges from the sayaguchi and over time is worn to the point where the sword no longer fits safely and can slide from out of the saya too easily. Some iaidoka may prefer this, I don't, so, a sword that exhibits this would be refitted with a new habaki. The solid or foiled silver type does not come patinated when new. That is how they look the best and as the sword is maintained any subsequent tarnish formation starting is removed just by handling. Now, there are blackened seppa that are usually in double sets that contrast with the polished or foiled seppa. They look best when the polished ones are kept bright. I do not mean chemically cleaned either, just cloth rubbed during normal maintenance. This keeps an attractive contrast. Scalloped edges, when they exist, will show some patination where the recesses receive little rubbing, this also shows a nice contrast. Another noticeable thing is that habaki usually show tarnish, if uncleaned, where they are exposed to the air and not where they are inside the saya so there is an unattractive demarcation when drawn to view. John

[nagamaki - Franco]

Plain unalloyed silver on the other hand is only patinated by sulphides, and that beautiful blue you refer to is merely an early stage in normal tarnishing. How did the artisan fix the tarnishing process at this given point?

 

You are correct in the fact that there is a sulphide involved. All I'm told is that there is a natural sulphured water involved which stinks like rotten eggs, obviously sulphur. Which is not surprising on a volcanic island. What other chemicals or minerals are in this water naturally I do not know, only that the blue effect is the result. I've seen several solid silver habaki locally that were done a good number of years ago and they have maintained their blue hue. On occasion you'll spot one on the internet as well, the silvery blue is unmistakable. Moral of the story is gently clean, but don't go messing with the patina.

 

Perhaps, Ford, after being amused by the peanut gallery would chime in with his thoughts.

[Eric H]

... that SILVER is NEVER allowed to tarnish whether it be on a Georgian Tea Service or a Japanese Sword ( fittings ).

 

I agree with the Tea Service. When it comes to Sword Fittings in Silver than old ideals of Japanese aesthetics must be considered, given someone is willing to internalize this perception. That said, wabi-sabi has nothing to do with esoteric, in this context it is simply the appreciation of a natural patina during aging.

 

Silver Fittings may be given from time to time a slight rubbing with a chamois leather.

 

Silver Kojiri on a Tanto saya late Edo period.

 

Eric

[NihontoEurope]

 

Silver Kojiri on a Tanto saya late Edo period.

 

Eric

 

Great comments from all parties. I really like the difference in opinion here.

 

This Saya、 I would never clean&polish　that since it contains other material than pure silver. When it comes to a single item like the Seppa in this case, built up with pure silver only, I must say I am tempted to polish it.

 

/Martin

[sanjuro]

We are speaking here of seppa. We are not speaking of habaki or other tosogu like sayajiri. Seppa made of silver or foiled with silver were meant to be kept polished or rather not allowed to tarnish to black. What has already been said is that they should be kept free of tarnish, not by abraiding them with a metal polish but by wiping them with a soft cloth or a chamois. What will happen over time is that they will maintain a silver finish and the fine crenellations will darken as they are supposed to. Hence an appreciable level of ageing and patination.

[NihontoEurope]

Alright...

 

Lets say cleaning.

 

What should be used and what should be avoided?

 

Any tips&tricks?

 

/Martin

[sanjuro]

First a question..... How bad is the tarnish? Is it black?

[NihontoEurope]

Keith,

 

This is how it looks like:

[attachment=1]IMG_6300.jpg[/attachment]

 

[attachment=0]IMG_6315.jpg[/attachment]

 

/Martin

[sanjuro]

OK. Obviously they arent meant to look like this. We dont want to remove the darkened areas between the lobes (Petals for want of a better term) of the design. What we are looking for is an antique finish where uniformly the low spots are tarnished and the high spots are silver.

I'm going to stick my neck out here so wait for others to comment and either approve or otherwise of the two methods I'm going to suggest.

 

(1) Get a silver cloth. This is a microfibre cloth that is impregnated with a dry silver polish. They are available from some hardware stores and jewellery supplies shops. Antique dealers and jewellers use them to clean delicate silver objects. The method is to dampen a small area of the cloth and wipe gently over the surface until the required finish is achieved. Just wash in clear water and dry.

(2) This is an old remedy and slightly disgusting. You need a cigar (best) or a cigarette (you wont have to smoke it) Light the horrible thing and just let it burn. After a while there will be a fine ash deposit which is what you need. Use a microfibre cloth for this. Mix the fine ash with spit on the cloth and wipe reasonably gently over the surface of the seppa until the required finish is reached. The ash is such a mild abrasive that it cannot harm natural patina but it will remove tarnish. It does dry to a cloudy mess. just wash in clear water and mild soap and dry. Throw the cigar away or smoke it according to personal habit. Dont use this on other silver mounts at all, or on tsuba.

 

Now wait for the comments from others before you try either of these methods. Its OK, I can handle the adverse comments. :D

[watsonmil]

Dear Keith,

Although I have not used the " ash " polishing method on silver, ... I have used the first item being a jewellers cloth. In my first reply to this subject I sounded rather harsh, ... and should have added the caveat that the low spots are never brought to a high polish but left to tarnish ( to varying degrees ) to add contrast to the object as in the case of Eric's silver kojiri ( notice the high points are polished and the lower background is left a subtle grey patina ). It is a difficult process to describe, and one that almost needs to be seen to appreciate and understand. That said .. Martin's seppa needs polishing/cleaning. I give you all the credit Keith, ... your polishing description puts my previous reply in the realm of a grouchy old man. I expect too much of people's understanding of patination/polishing and what is pleasing to the eye. A big to you Keith.

... Ron Watson

[redmond]

(1) Get a silver cloth. This is a microfibre cloth that is impregnated with a dry silver polish. They are available from some hardware stores and jewellery supplies shops. Antique dealers and jewellers use them to clean delicate silver objects. The method is to dampen a small area of the cloth and wipe gently over the surface until the required finish is achieved. Just wash in clear water and dry.

 

Martin-

 

I have a spare silver cloth that you can have if you like. PM me and I will send it to you.

[NihontoEurope]

Greg,

 

Thank you so kindly. I will have a look at a local smith. If I'm unsuccessful, I will contact you.

 

What I understand from the comments I should get rid of the blackening and polish the silver.

 

Should I polish it all? Back side and front side?

 

/Martin

[Mark Andrews]

Hello Martin,

 

Nice sepper ! IMO leave it alone. I cleaned and polished the same parts on a sword that I had and afterwards it just stuck out like the proverbial sore thumb against all of the other older aged sword furniture & tsuba etc.

 

Now I have to wait to it darkens again. Its up to you really.

 

Cheer's.

 

Mark.

[Ford Hallam]

Having read through the various opinions on this issue I was inclined to keep my nose out of it but it would be churlish of me to ignore Franco's amusing 'invitation' to add my own take on the matter. :D

 

The first point that needs to be made is that generally speaking prior to the modern period Japanese decorative metal artists did not use sulphide solutions to develop black/gray 'oxidized' patina on silver. Certainly, the sulphur rich water from hot springs (motohap) was known but an artificially created silver sulphide layer (as this solution readily creates) is a very short term finish. When silver sulphides (note that silver doesn't oxidise very easily at all so, 'oxidised silver' is a misnomer) develop they are not stable and once initiated will continue unabated. Silver alloys, like Sterling etc, seem to be far more resistant to this sort of conversion so sulphide finishes were used and at times 'de rigueur' in various European silverware traditions. In those cases the silver was darkened and then 'relieved' on the high points to accentuate the modelling of the chased surface decoration.

 

The action of sulphides on pure silver is essentially a form of rusting where the silver is gradually consumed. The silver sulphide layer is harder and more brittle than the underlying pure silver so it will inevitably flake off at some point, to reveal fresh, corroded, white silver and the process of breakdown will continue. Incidentally this is why silver nunome on Higo work is so fugitive, it's more often than not simply been eaten away by sulphide conversion.

 

Having said all that the traditional metalwork artisan had a number of another processes for toning and colouring pure silver. Perfectly white and bright silver being generally regarded as an anathema, to paraphrase B W Robinson. and risk rabid condemnation from the book-burning brigade.

 

The most common, Kin-furubi, is a process that leaves a molecule thin layer of gold on the surface of fine silver. The gold molecules absorb the same spectrum of light as when in shakudo and the light that is reflected (from the rest of the metal) appears black for the same reason. Used on it's own kin-furubi produces a very gentle and subtle 'pewter-like' patina that will gradually darken with age. It will, though, depending on the presence of atmospheric pollutants, eventually turn black also. It's common practice to speed up the kin-furubi patina by applying iodine. This tends to produce blue, purple and yellow interference colours and further exposure to sunlight hastens the overall darkening.

 

The last point I'd make would be the about the degree of polish. A perfect mirror finish is only one extreme on a continuum of possible finishes. Simply polishing tarnished silver with a metal polish will produce a very hard (in appearance) and garish finish. It's possible to produce a far more diffused finish that is both less 'hade' (flashy and loud) and provides a more subtle ground for gentle colouring.

 

So, traditional metalworkers had available a range of finishes for pure silver and, in my opinion, a completely bright mirror finish would have been regarded as being 'a bit much' and far too obvious.

 

Regards to all,

 

fh