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Rookie question: why didn't this blade sell on Ebay?


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Hello, why didn't this blade sell, at what I think is a fair price (at least in my budget) for a signed, papered Muromashi blade with koshirae and shyrasaya ? Blade doesn't seem to have so many flaws?

 

Please enlighten me... Here is the link:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Katana-Koto-Nag ... 1170251297

 

Laurent

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A LOT of people won't buy from most of the Japanese sellers on eBay. Not because of bad service (some of them give great service and are nice guys) but because it is obvious their swords have done the rounds in Japan, and are too mediocre or ho-hum to sell there, and they are then foisted on the Western market. After a few years of looking at this stuff, none of it grabs the attention anymore..it's all just more of the same old, same old.

 

Brian

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It is quite possible to purchase a good sword with a limited budget. But, what you cannot make up for in $$$$ you must make up with knowledge and study, including books and travel to shows and finding a study group. I think one area that is undervalued is hooking up with nihonto student/collectors who from time to time find themselves selling one of their collectible swords. This still does not relieve the buyer from doing all the necessary homework in making a wise purchase, but it can lead to a better result than throwing the dice on a speculative gamble.

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Hi Laurent,

Living in Belgium gives you a lot of options which are far better than Ebay. I have sold many of my own swords and some of a friends throughout the EU from the UK. so far without problem. there are a lot of well respected dealers within the EU and it would be infinitely safer to talk to one or more of them and or people selling on the board than it would to try a speculate on Ebay and bring something in from further afield from an unknown source.

Regards

Paul.

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I have a Mino senjuin blade. I think mine has alot more activity and is much nicer than that one, though mine is mumei and o-suriage. I would guess, that this one is a good bit later, late muromachi. I would date that one around 1550 or so as its ubu and a katana. Mine is a cut down tachi.

 

http://s2.beta.photobucket.com/user/chr ... rary/sword

 

I will say the Koshirae is nicer than what i have on my sword.

 

while i love Mino senjuin blades, and have seen a few others on the internet that i would have bought given the chance, the photos of this one dont excite me.

 

there are few extant examples of Mino Senjiun surviving. This one is at a fair price considering you get koshirae and shirasara. But the blade seems dull and i dont like the shape. The shape of the kissaki looks like it was repaired.

 

Chris

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From what I see, the boshi either runs of, or is very close to the edge.

 

I agree exactly with what David said...you must look at the blade carefully. The boshi is thin or runs off. I also don't like the way the seller leaves the habaki on for most of the pics...maybe hiding some kizu or fault IMHO.

Hope this helps,

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Laurent,

 

Better save up for a good blade then buying a mediocre one. I bought blades way to early and also looked primarily at the cost. It is better to just save up for a good blade and steer away from ebay, unless you exactly know what you are looking at and the seller is known.

 

There are enough trustworthy sellers within Europe who have swords that are fair priced =)

 

Just my 2 cents.

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Would you like to find out what JP collectors are saying about Sword market, Dealers, Papers ?

Must be able to read Japanese though...

 

:laughabove:

http://logsoku.com/thread/ikura.2ch.net ... 309356546/

 

:rant:

http://logsoku.com/thread/ikura.2ch.net ... 348985366/

 

Maybe still difficult because a lot of slang and converted characters in the posts :dunno:

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Some of the posters sound just like us at times. The language can be graphic. ie. "糞みたいな刀でも重要の紙付いてても欲しいのかと。" There are references to a lot of shops that I am sure we all know. I find 悪 aku, waru applied a good indicator. Thanks for the insight. John

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For Example !

A Post

***********************************************

6 : 名前なカッター(ノ∀`)[] : 投稿日:2012/09/30 18:41:57

ID:d1ohdto6 [1/3回]

 

オークションの日本刀の実情のまとめ

Summary for reality of Japaese sword on Auction

 

偽銘や未鑑定品

Gimei or un-Kantei items

 

(業者が鑑定して価値がないと判断された刀)

(Swords of no value after dealers examination)

 

の いわゆる ガタナは2~3万位。

so called "Gatana" are 20000-30000JPY.

 

10振り束でも20万~25万。

200000-250000JPY for 10 swords (Taba-Gatana)

 

それが一振り10万に化けてぼったくりで売りに出される。

Those become (change) to 100000JPY on Auction.

 

投売り価格で仕入れられたものが

オークションで極悪人達によって売られる

Those items which were sold for through away price, are sold on the public auction by Atrocious fiends.

 

だから刀なら8万前後

脇差なら3万前後を相場に落札しないと

おそろしくぼったくられる。

So 80000JPY for Katana,

30000JPY for Wakizashi

is maximum.

unless so far ripping off.

 

保存、特別保存・以外・の鑑定書がついているものは市場で評価されなく、

Kanteisho, except Hozon and Tokubetsuhozon are not Value at all in the Dealer's auction and trading.

 

オークションで他機関の鑑定書がついている場合には、偽者ゆえに鑑定書がついているとみて

考えるのがよい。

When you see the sword with Kanteisho (ex Hozon and TH/Juyo) are All fake swords, that is why they have those kind of Kanteisho...

************************************************

What do you think ??

Thery are mentioning about dealers in Japan and particular blades as well !

do you want to know more ??

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Yes please continue!!! So basically dealers buy blades in bulks of 10 for about $25 000 give or take with exchange rate. Each blade brings in between approx $3000 for wakizashi and $8000 for katana if they are lucky and they turn $25 000 into $100 000. Or at very least make their invested amount back plus a lovely premium. HMM.

 

Josh

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Josh,

Try a tenth of that amount. Blades go for around $3000 for 10...not $35,000 :shock:

yeah..this is in line with what i have heard about the dealer auctions. They buy in bulk..then move them off to other dealers down the line. Mostly gimei or mumei or other undesirable swords, I suppose there are sometimes some nicer ones mixed in. Seems there is almost an unending supply.

There are a few Western sellers too, with a line into these auctions, and a lot of these make it onto eBay. Old unreliable papers, Gendaito made to look like Shinshinto, and saiha too. Stuff that has been examined and determined to be "junk" or not having artistic merit.

No doubt there are some nice swords found too on the auctions...but these are cherry picked early, and I think there is a hierarchy of dealers where the top grade get first pick, and then they do down the line until the really cheap stuff is gone. Note the Japanese sellers on eBay selling blades for afew hundred $'s that most of us won't even look at. Those probably were bought for under $100.

 

They also seem to be saying that any papers besides modern Hozon/TH/Juyo are disregarded in these auctions as not worth anything. Again, in line with what we have been told here lately.

 

Brian

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You have one extra Zero :lol:

 

Dealers buy 10 swords for $2500 (200-300 for one) :laughabove:

sale for $1000+ each on Auction in Japan.

 

Poster is saying that, If you want to buy sword on Auction, you shouldn't pay more than $800 for Katana, $300 for Wakizashi.

 

They are talking about swords (Gimei, un-kantei and Kicho/Tokubetsukicho) on Auction in Japan.

 

and Hozon, Tokubetsuhozon are different story.

 

PS : Contiue ?

the contents are too radical to translate by myself ( as a Japanese myself )... :lipssealed:

If anybody would like to try, I will help ( for slang and converted characters )

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I went to dealer auctions regularly (to take advantage of the wholesale prices to buy things for myself, not resale) and I was lucky to find one sword in 1000 worth buying. Mostly fake stuff of every flavor. Talk about shark infested waters....Dealers would take turns trying to unload the stuff. Now, with worldwide online auction access, no doubt their pool of pigeons (ducks in Japan) has increased dramatically.

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Ahh sorry! :oops: I have no idea why I mentioned 1000's.. I guess I was having a moment with numbers. Haha those estimates sound way better! Regardless- This topic says it all.

 

Speaking of deals.. Lately, I personally find the best bargains are in buying family blades surrendered during WW2 and, if necessary, having them restored.

Regards,

Josh

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Hello, why didn't this blade sell, at what I think is a fair price (at least in my budget) for a signed, papered Muromashi blade with koshirae and shyrasaya ? Blade doesn't seem to have so many flaws?

 

Please enlighten me... Here is the link:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Katana-Koto-Nag ... 1170251297

 

Laurent

 

 

Hello Laurent.

 

Not many sword collectors will buy on Ebay. I believe a sword will sell on its own merits in its own country of origin anyway.

 

Most Japanese sellers in Japan on Ebay, will not allow return of swords. As the import back into Japan, has the usual red tape & paper work. If you the buyer, are not happy and want to return the sword. Its a hard road that you will take. So buy carefully.

 

Paypal buyer protection wont help you ether in most cases. Until the sword is back with the seller.

 

Just ask on the forum and someone will direct you to helpful sword dealers in Japan and USA + other's

 

Cheer's

 

Mark.

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Laurent,

 

Buy from dealers, chose them well (must have an "inspection period" and a return policy, in case the artefact is not as described on the dealer website, I have seen "mistakes" on measurement); buy from reputable collectors, there are a lot, but always with a return policy if, as with dealers, you buy through the web without having seen/hold the artefact.

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