Why wakizashi and others swords over 2 shaku

[Christophe]

It seems that the majority of Japanese sword collectors prefer wakizashi and others swords over 2 shaku than tanto. Is there a particular reason? or is it simply a matter of taste?

Christophe

[Marius]

Christophe,

 

why do you have this impression? Is it maybe because there seem to be more wakizashi and daito on the market?

[Ken-Hawaii]

Christophe, I've found that, in general, you get the most for your money buying a wakizashi. That doesn't mean you can't get great deals on tachi, katana, tanto, naginata, etc., but if I am looking for a particular smith & have a specific budget, I'm most likely to buy that blade as a wakizashi. Do I prefer that? No, but unless I'm independently wealthy, a wakizashi is probably the best fit for my budget.

 

Interestingly, at my sword society meetings there are seldom wakizashi that come up for sale.

 

Ken

[Christophe]

I'm allowed to ask this question because it is because that is what I feel.

It is clear that as K says Mariusz there be more daito and wakizashi on the market, I see it in sales or in stores here. And I really feel that the tanto is the poor relation among collectors while I think that the work of forging and pollissage is the same, if not more important, for a tanto.

[bmoore1322]

I prefer the Wakizashi's because I prefer CQB weapons, and these type of blades are the perfect CQB type weapons.

 

I may flamed for saying this, but is what I enjoy the most.

 

Brian

[Christophe]

Ken, you said "in general, you get the MOST for your money buying a wakizashi."

I fully understand that for any collection, there is a budget, and we always look for the "best value for money," but I thought that even if we want to limit a collection at a particular smith, period or school , having different type of blades can be rewarding. I'm just starting a collection, this is why I asked the question.

[Christophe]

Sorry Brian, english is not my natural language, could you explain what mean "CQB weapons"

[bmoore1322]

My Wakizashi's vary by period, and style and shape of blade, but I mostly do own Wakizashi's.

 

My favorite if a very big , thick , and very robust blade, that I have been told might have been a cut down Naginata.

 

Of course I do have 3 swords that are papered, and all but two of my 11 swords are also in full polish.

 

 

Brian

 

Pic of the sword i mentioned above.

[Christophe]

sorry to have forgotten to sign my last 3 post.

Christophe

[bmoore1322]

CQB means Close Quarter Battle weapon, as these short swords were made for close quarter battle, if I'm not mistaken.

 

 

Brian

[Ken-Hawaii]

Christophe, by all means find & buy all sizes of weapons for your collection! I thought you were asking the question about which size Nihonto gave you the most bang for your buck, so that is what I addressed.

My collection certainly has everything from tachi to tanto. I am particularly lucky because not only do I swing blades in two iaido ryuha, but my wife does also. So when we plan for a purchase, I don't have the common problem of convincing my spouse why I need still another "butcher knife" in my collection.

 

As you're just starting your collecting days, I strongly recommend that you read this article written by a very advanced NMB member, Guido Schiller: http://jssh.org/tips.html. It will very likely save you much time & money. If not, read it again!

 

Ken

[Christophe]

thanks Ken for the link.

I will read it this evening

Christophe

[paulb]

Chris,

I dont know if it helps but while reading articles you might want to take a look at the one in the articles section

http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/arti ... matter.pdf

 

it gives some background and thoughts relating to size and collectivity

[Lorenzo]

Christophe, I've found that, in general, you get the most for your money buying a wakizashi.

 

I think so.

 

Few days ago I've find this table which gives some interesting perspective (there are always exception, but in general it could work)

http://members.chello.nl/tfujimot/purchasing.htm

 

I may flamed for saying this

 

That would be too easy

[Christophe]

Thanks Lorenzo.

Paul, I have a problem with the link you give me : http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/arti ... matter.pdf

I can't open it

Christophe

[paulb]

Hi Chris,

probably something I have done wrong. Go to the articles section on the board here. look for "Size Doesnt matter"

it is a PDF article so shouldnt be a problem

[Christophe]

Thanks

Christophe

[nagamaki - Franco]

a few thoughts;

1) Keep in mind that there are outstanding examples in all category lengths of nihonto and the key to collecting is the ability to properly identify quality. Good is good.

2) Although the wakizashi was a secondary sword, the samurai depended on it to save their life when their primary weapons failed. As Koto technology was lost due to interuptions from constant war disrupting the passing down of information, and in terms of real battle testing under fighting conditions into Edo times, I wonder if the wakizashi didn't become a fixture in part because of the increased frequency of daito failures (fire away, ha! http://www.nihontocraft.com/Aratameshi_Nihonto.html , http://www.nihontocraft.com/Suishinshi_Masahide.html) Food for thought.

3) From a collecting point of view a tanto requires that the swordsmith produces all the characteristics of his work within a short frame work, which one would imagine is quite a challenge. In terms of market value I think you will find with all else being equal the tanto will bring in a higher price than the wakizashi.

4) Before anyone, especially newbies, get the bright idea to run out and start forming daisho sets they had better thoroughly research what makes up a 'true' daisho set according to accepted standards and not made up collector hearsay.

[Tcat]

I personally wonder if the wakizashi didn't become a fixture in part because of the increased frequency of daito failures

 

Oh boy here it comes...

[sanjuro]

Actually, Franco makes a good point here. It is arguable that the long swords of the shinto period were somewhat less resilient than their Koto counterparts. Daito failure and breakage was more frequent than we perhaps give credit to. The Masahide article details failures of blades in circumstances that are not considered extreme.

[Tcat]

I have no doubt it is a good point, but this is quite interesting...

 

Franco, when you say "become a fixture", do you mean that Edo soldiers would carry a wakizashi to battle rather than a daito, or just in addition to a daito?

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

I personally wonder if the wakizashi didn't become a fixture in part because of the increased frequency of daito failures

 

No offense intended here, but i think Franco gave us a link he didn't read attentively.

[nagamaki - Franco]

My personal statement was not an attempt to rewrite Nihonto history (Alex), but rather to encourage thought outside the norm. Jacques, I'm not going to get dragged into your quicksand, sorry.

 

It seems that the majority of Japanese sword collectors prefer wakizashi and others swords over 2 shaku than tanto. Is there a particular reason? or is it simply a matter of taste?

Christophe

 

No.1 daito, no.2 tanto, no.3 wakizashi is always how it has been presented.

[Christophe]

Thank you all for your contributions that helps me identify what should be a collection.

Franco, you said "As Koto technology was lost due to constant interuptions from war Disrupting the passing down of information, and in terms of testing under real battle fighting requirements into Edo times, I wonder if the wakizashi did not Become a fixture in Because of the hand Increased frequency of daito failures ", I find this point of view, I also very interesting and I think I'm going to look more closely.

I think now (since I'm on this forum) that what a collection is not the number of pieces that we have, but their value.

Christophe

[sanjuro]

I think now (since I'm on this forum) that what a collection is not the number of pieces that we have, but their value.

Christophe

 

Substitute the word 'quality' for 'value' and you have it. Congratulations! you have arrived in one step, at that which is taking many others many faltering steps to come to terms with.

[cabowen]

There are both objective and subjective reasons for the variation in price and perceived value differences between blade lengths.

 

Practically speaking, it is much more difficult to make a long blade than it is a short blade. This is the objective reason. Subjectively, collectors value the association of longer blades with the samurai. As you know, only samurai were allowed to wear them.

 

While wakizashi are more difficult to make than tanto, their association with the merchant class seems to be a negative subjective factor that depresses their prices, making them a good value in many people's eyes.

 

Tanto are easier to make as mentioned above. They are also usually made to order. For these reasons, they are many times of higher quality as a result. They are also scarce in comparison to wakizashi. These are the objective reasons for their higher perceived value. Tanto are associated with the upper classes and seppuku. For these subjective reasons, they have a higher relative value.

[nagamaki - Franco]

a collection is not the number of pieces that we have, but their value.

 

One "good sword" is a collection.

[NihontoEurope]

 

One "good sword" is a collection.

 

 

One good sword is not a collection.

 

/Martin

[nagamaki - Franco]

One good sword is not a collection.

 

How so?

[NihontoEurope]

Franco,

 

By definition the word "collection" refers to a group of something. One item or person does not for a group nor collection.

 

Therefore "one good sword" is not a collection nor a group.

 

/Martin