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Edo Period Wakizashi in full Shirosaya I bought today.


bmoore1322
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Okay, I saw this, and really liked it a lot, has a great Hamon, and shows great Hada as well, is in good polish, the Nakago is Mumei.

 

Has a really nice two piece brass Habaki.

 

Edo period blade in full Shirosaya, has the certificate from Japan where it was registered.

 

I'm not saying what i paid for it, but the price was really good.

 

Brian

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Brian,

 

you are insatiable :D But I understand, of course. The advice many people here have given you is still valid - save up for something much much better. And may I add that a better sword will bring you much more joy than those average eBay pieces? OK, I buy on eBay, too, but only from ime to time ;-)

 

Now to the sword... Honestly, I cannot see much in the pics, but what I see is: kitae-ware and shingane. Not good for a shinto...

 

I know the price was low, I guess below $1k, but that is precisely what it is worth. You will learn this as soon as you decide to sell it. You were the only bidder, I presume?

 

Now, you have spent nearly $8k on swords and you have an impressive sword-rack, just like in a dojo. It s your money of course, but since you appear to be asking for an opinion, here it is - you have bought a low-end sword again.

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I understand what you mean, but with these swords, I can read my books, and learn from these swords, I really like the wakizashi's the most.

 

I have slowed down, I have been offered at least 10 other swords in the past two weeks, turned them down.

 

I have been going through my books, I just really like the looks of this one, and i don't think it is a low end sword, it shows the hada, and hamon really good, and in full polish, the polish on it would cost well over 1000.00, as I'm only buying papered, and/or polished swords from now on out, if they are both, better yet.

 

I'm not asking for anyone's approval, just showing the sword, as i like to look at the swords others post in here, so I'm contributing to the pics for viewing.

 

The only thing wrong about it is the non-signed Nakago.

 

Brian

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Brian,

 

the last thing you need is my approval :D

 

I hope you will learn a lot from this sword, but all you will learn will be about low-end swords. Please keep in mind that a sword on which you see the hada and hamon is not necessarily a good sword. You will see them in bundle swords as well.

 

Honestly, I don't tink much can be said from the pictures you have posted here. A typical Kanbun shinto, nothing special, with flaws which have affected the price. Otherwise, any reason why you have bought it, beside it being inexpensive and a new polish costing more than the sword? If you think it was such a tremendous deal, try to resell it at a profit, maybe? I am deliberately provocative, trying to induce you to think a bit. Don't hold it against me, please. If you don't want to listen to critical opinions... that will be the last time I respond to your post. Why should I annoy you?

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Hi Brian,

 

After you have collected for a while you will see that mumei shinto and shinshinto swords are not generally considered desirable by more senior collectors. As a minimum standard, a sword from Shinto or later should be signed and preferably ubu (with one mekugi-ana). One like the example you have shown us here, what appears to be a tired, mumei Shinto blade with what looks like patches of shingane showing, has very little collectible value. There's an expression "bad swords hurt your eyes". As people have said several times in your previous postings it is your money and you can collect whatever you like, but IMHO you are doing yourself a disservice collecting swords like this which do not have a great deal to offer in terms of teaching you about quality. For less (perhaps far less) than the amount that you have spent recently you could have purchased a truly wonderful late Kamakura or Nambukucho period o-suriage mumei wakizashi, in polish with a quality habaki and likely already Tokubetsu Hozon. That sword would have served as good study material as you move forward and might be a sword that you never want to sell/could not be upgraded even when you have gained much more knowledge and experience.

 

- Ray

 

i don't think it is a low end sword, it shows the hada, and hamon really good, and in full polish, the polish on it would cost well over 1000.00, as I'm only buying papered, and/or polished swords from now on out, if they are both, better yet.
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@ Ray

 

Thanks, i understand what you are saying, but I'm really happy with these swords for now, I know as my taste in these swords progress', i will start getting more picky with what i buy, but for now, i will enjoy these to the max.

 

I think i have come a long way from the oil drenched , non-Nihonto blades i was buying.

 

Brian

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By now I think it is clear that you can lead the horse to water but.....

 

It's clear that the op is not going to take the advice given here to save his money, study, then buy something collectible. He is content buying these types of blades and no one is going to talk him out of it. That is his prerogative.

 

We would all do well to just get out of the way....cause it is simply: :bang: :bang: :bang:

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@ Chris

 

I quit buying Showa type swords and buy only true Nihonto's and I still get crap over it, I will eventually move up to what you all are talking about, but in the meantime I really enjoy these for now, before I drop 15-20 K down on a single sword I want to study these for now, and enjoy them for what they are , as they are Nihonto's , right .

 

I can always get my money out of them, or they will make good swords to trade off for something better down the road.

 

You say I don't listen, look at what I'm buying now, compared to a few months ago. All at the advice from you and many others.

 

Brian

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@ Chris

 

I quit buying Showa type swords and buy only true Nihonto's and I still get crap over it, I will eventually move up to what you all are talking about, but in the meantime I really enjoy these for now, before I drop 15-20 K down on a single sword I want to study these for now, and enjoy them for what they are , as they are Nihonto's , right .

 

I can always get my money out of them, or they will make good swords to trade off for something better down the road.

 

You say I don't listen, look at what I'm buying now, compared to a few months ago. All at the advice from you and many others.

 

Brian

 

 

True, you have taken a step.....Like I said, it is your money, and your right to buy what you want. I keep seeing the same comments addressed at you, and I have made them myself. It is clear that you are happy doing what you are doing so my comments above were addressed more to the other members than to you-there is no need to keep telling you the same thing over and over....enjoy yourself!

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Brian.

Because I'm not easily discouraged and thus far I have had minimal input into your posts, I'll persist where others have perhaps resigned themselves to letting you 'do your thing' in the face of good advice to the contrary. What follows is not a personal indictment directed at you or your preferences but a simple statement of facts.

 

You claim for whatever reason, that you prefer wakizashi, and the examples you own are largely average examples that most of us would not look twice at. Fair enough I guess, but the fact remains that you will learn little or nothing apart from what constitutes a mid or low end blade from the mid to low end examples you own. One good sword would teach you far more about nihonto. The reason for this is that the books you are reading use good examples in order to illustrate the various aspects of hada, hamon, sugata etc, and you don't appear to own a good enough example to compare with those texts and illustrations in order to identify what you are seeing in your blades with any accuracy.

Wakizashi are fine but they are not the most collectable class of blade. The reason for this is that most of them are not good quality and were made in the main for non samurai. There are literally hundreds of thousands of these things extant which were made for merchants and the like who would not have known a good sword from a bad one. Many were merely 'bundle' swords. There are exceptions of course, and these are sought after. None of them change hands on ebay however. The upshot of this is that when you come to trade or sell your accumulation of wakizashi, unless you have an extremely good or rare example, you will almost certainly take a loss on them.

 

Just my two cents worth. :)

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I know you more than likely won't do this-but you need to go to some shows. You need to see good examples in hand. Until you look at lots of good swords you aren't able to judge quality.

You also need to read.

 

If a Wak sells for less than the price of polish-there is a reason for this, in most cases.

 

Andswer this

What makes a "good" sword?

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I understand what you are saying, but 6 of my swords are in full new, or newer polish, and two of them are papered.

 

I would not consider them to be low quality blades, one of my swords I bought off Bob Benson, it is not low quality, and another one of my mine that majority of members in here all love the looks and quality of it, that would be the blade I thought was a cut down naginata blade.

 

The only Showa Era sword I own is an Kanezane sword in full civilian mounts, and that blade is in full new polish with a letter from the San Francisco sword society, from the early 80's.

 

Yes, I do prefer Wakizashi's, as I love close quarter battle weapons.

 

Brian

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My only comment is that, when you do attend the shows coming up, you take a good look firstly at what a good, traditional polish looks like..and secondly, what a good hada looks like. Just because you can see the grain clearly is not always a good thing. A hard/harsh hada isn't good on the eyes, and core steel showing through is not good either.

So just in the name of furthering education, try and concentrate on finding out what a good, tight liquid wet looking hada looks like compared to a hard, open grain showing core steel. You are progressing in steps, and I feel this should be one of your next ones.

You don't have to spend thousands to get better examples. You can get a nice waki in polish with good hada for under $2500 I am quite sure.

Keep up the learning...slow down a little on the purchasing, and you should move forwards.

 

Brian

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But overall, what do you think of the condition of this blade, I like what I see so far, it says it will be delivered here tomorrow, so that's what the tracking number says, as it does say it is in Mansfield already.

 

Really fast shipping from Japan, under 5 days.

 

Plus it looks like I might be picking up another Kanezane tomorrow, I know i said no more Showa, but i will buy any of his swords when I find them, and this one is in full Gunto mounts, with signature, turtle hot stamp, and the arsenal stamping as well.

 

Brian

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Brian.

 

Others have posted their impressions of this sword. Basically, a shin shinto with kitae ware and shingane. That makes it a low end sword despite the pretty hamon. Hada and hamon alone are not the 'be all and end all' when it comes to nihonto. You still have a long road (Learning curve) ahead of you. My impression of the sword............. It really doesn't matter. Its what you think of it that matters, and as you grow in knowledge and look with a more experienced eye, the less you will be attracted to this and other swords you have posted here. :)

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Brian.

Yes, I do prefer Wakizashi's, as I love close quarter battle weapons.

 

And in a later post in another thread, in which you refer to wakizashi as CQB

 

CQB means Close Quarter Battle weapon, as these short swords were made for close quarter battle, if I'm not mistaken.

 

It would be interesting to find out exactly what you are defining as Close quarter battle in the context of wakizashi. How do you think these swords were used?

 

If one were to be pedantic, then the tanto is the CQB (sic) par excellence. :D The wakizashi at least as far as samurai were concerned were largely a badge of rank, and an emergency weapon at best. In nito style for instance, it is used as a parrying weapon. Ashigaru during the Momoyama period were issued with swords of wakizashi length as a secondary weapon to a yari or a naginata. The vast majority of wakizashi were made in the Edo period for the merchant class since they were not permitted to wear a long sword. In terms of status, the wakizashi ranks below the tanto, which was at least meant as a close quarter weapon to back up the long sword of earlier periods.

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There are also other "kind" of wakizashi. I used to own a muromachi period wakizashi, suriage, still retaining 59,7 cm nagasa.

I'm not sure if that kind of nihonto could be easily ranked below tanto ;)

 

For the CQB thing... just LOL. Brian stop thinking about killing people please, its no good for your health.

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Lorenzo.

 

Yep... I knew someone would pick me up on that. LOL. The problem we face here is the Edo period definition of a wakizashi as opposed to merely a shorter bladed weapon than a katana as defined in the Edo period classifications that we use fairly widely today. Those longer wakizashi of the Momoyama period I dont think were defined as wakizashi at the time, they were merely a sword of a convenient length. They really border on being uchigatana.

However, I bow to your correction. :D

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First of all, I have used plenty of CQB weapons on my multiple tours in Iraq, and also in training here in the states, I know the definition of an CQB weapon.

 

If the guy sent me the sword without de-registering it first in Japan, that is on him, not me, as I have done nothing wrong, nor have I done anything illegal.

 

 

 

 

Brian

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This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one, unless your post is really relevant and adds to the topic..

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