estcrh

I will post my thoughts, and they are just mine. The odoshi on the tare is "aged" and mucky and dirty. Look at some of the cross-knots and how nasty filthy they are. Now look at the pristine bear fur. Makes you go hummmmm.

 

Makes me think a restoration or change has occurred post original production.

It is described as being "probably hare"....as in a rabbit type fur....not "bear"...and it does not look "pristine" at all to me.

 

Shokumō menpō

Furred samurai armor mask

Mid to late Edo period

19th century

The mask is built in two parts and the nose can be detached. The entire surface of the menpō and the last plate on the yodarekake is covered with a soft fur, probably hare.

Originally, hair-covered menpō and kabuto were made to protect against the rain, usually using bear-fur, but in this case the surface is intended to be decorative. The most famous armor completely furred is probably the one owned by Katagiri Matsumoto (1556-1615) now at Osaka Castle Museum. A kabuto covered with a similar fur, not bear-fur, was used by Matsudaira Chikatada, and there are not many known suits of armor that bear this kind of surface.

 

 

Dear board members,

 

I have recently acquired this Armor. Complete but for a Kabuto. I beg your pardon for my poor image. I have not had any time yet to further mess around with it due to having take care of a toddler who has little mercy for his fathers leisure time.

 

My knowledge on armor is even more limited than on Nihonto - so very close to none existend. Hence I would greatly appreciate any input towards it. My blant guess is Edo periode from around 1750? Also any hint towards the clan mon is greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you very much,

 

Luis

Hard to say anything without much better images, one thing you can do is to use a magnet to see it all of the parts are metal, also look for any damage to lacing and or lacquer.

I doubt - IMHO - that it for shooting  shooting arrows. I think that technology was largely obsolete  by Edo times.

What the Europe and America considered "obsolete technology" was not necessarily obsolete in Edo period Japan

 

Japanese touch hole cannon etc. https://www.pinterest.com/worldantiques/Japanese-samurai-touch-hole-cannon/

 

At this price keep in mind it wasn't produced in Japan. Commissioned in China. 

 

 

Valric, do you know this for sure or is this a personal opinion?

 

 

 

 

 

Looks great!! I think you could start a side business.

 

Helle everyone 

im just curius about the quality for this armor 

i want to buy one full set armor kit but i dont have the 10k for that

did this armor is a OK quality for the price and quality 

Thks All 

 

here the link on ebay :

 

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Japanese-samurai-ARMOR-Golden-2-mai-Dou-gusoku-yoroi-kabuto-MENPO/152622355179?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

It looks to be in good condition, the price is ok, the shipping is a bit high in my opinion but as long as you are aware that it is not an antique and it suits your needs go for it.

 

This is a Showa era Japanese SAMURAI armor.About 40 years old. made in Japan Kagoshima。Full iron. Modern figure. Can wear.

This is a set private style. Very rare. You can decorate your study or office with it.If you love the Japanese kendo. This is the best decoration armor 。

Custom price 40 years ago:Price:US $1,550.00 Approximately C $1,957.65 Shipping: US $325.00 (approx. C $410.47)

Can anyone tell me this signature? Thanks. Bob Elder

Pictures of the whole gun would be nice.

As promised I took quite a few photographs of this blade today during the service in the inner sanctum................................................Total length 152.3 cm, blade length 120.3 cm., originally dedicated here by the Osafune smith Sukesada in Kanbun 6, 1666, the year of the great fire of London. ................. Later we were all asked not to post any photographs on the internet without prior clearance from the shrine priests. All I can post now are shots of the outside of the shrine, which also is wonderful, but permission for certain indoors shots may filter down in due course.

 

 

Why are the Japanese so opposed to photographs, hopefully you will be able to post some eventually.

Wow... thank you NMB person who emailed me to tell what an ignorant parasite I / my Hidensho site is.

 

Apparently putting free photos of my acquisitions on my site, with the opportunity to let people view, translate / identify and and make free use of all posts and translations of period documents, for what I hoped would be to the benefit of the community, was actually me displaying my ignorance, my unwillingness to study, and my demanding people for knowledge "I haven't earned".

 

This is quite enough. I quite understand my position here now; in fact, it's been made crystal clear. The Hidensho site is now offline. I will have the domain permanently removed later this week, so as not to impose on the "secret knowledge" of others.

 

Be assured I will not be bothering you again with these or any future acquisitions.

 

Brian, feel free to delete this thread. It no longer serves any purpose.

Randy, why would you let the views of one person keep you from doing what so many more people obviously appreciate. I have been viciously attacked by a few individuals for my Pinterest site, but I simply ignore these people as I get so many more positive messages from people who tell me how useful it is to them.  Just keep doing what you do and ignore the "nattering nabobs of negativism".

20170701_133547.jpg

How about some details, what product did you use, is it authentic Japanese lacquer, how did you apply it and how did you dry it etc.

As for the use of mon on export goods - of course they were! Some items were covered in them. The jingasa illustrated in the Galeno Collection p.128, looks like a page from a book on mon. This poor old thing has obviously had the treatment to attract a buyer. You should read the book by Mortimer Menpes of his time in Japan where he is befriended by a Japanese antique dealer. He describes all the tricks being perpetrated to produce stuff for the tourists.

Ian Bottomley

Good morrow chaps.,

 

Thank you Ian, you are a constant font of knowledge.

 

Here for everyone else is the book by Mortimer  Menpes that you mentioned, (Japan A Record in Colour)

 

The pertinent quotes about the dealer "Inchie" and "decoration" for the European taste are on pages 153 onwards:

 

https://archive.org/details/japanarecordinc01menpgoog

I have been meaning to reply to these two comments.....while the book section mentioned is a very good reference and is well worth reading, as far as I can tell it never mentions weapons or armor. A basic synopsis...a very wealthy English man goes to Japan and hires an army of Japanese artists to create Japanese themed rooms for his mansion back in England. He meets a Japanese merchant who tell him about how Japanese artists are deceiving Europeans by creating fake antique works of art.

 

 Anecdotal evidence but interesting and if one were to assume that what was written in 1903 is not an exaggeration of the truth then I believe that the slightly embellished Japanese matchlocks being discussed in this thread would not be of high enough quality for the very rich potential clients that would have purchased items in Japan to bring back to Europe or the US. Below is an example of what I can see as having been produced during that time period for export to rich foreigners.

 

 

Eric,

 

Sometimes, but not in this instance.  GOOGLE the names.

 

-StevenK

I know that Sandoz is famous for making LSD and Bugatti is famous for making cars....as for Google searches I suppose one could come up with various other meanings....no way of knowing which meaning you were applying to this statue unless you explain a bit more.

Ben,

 

Absolutely stunning, congrats.  I see the influence of SANDOZ and BUGATTI  in this piece, wonderful.  You got a bargain.

 

-StevenK

You see the influence of LSD and sports cars?

I recently subscribed to Kelly Schmidt's email list regarding auction items in Japan and have been drooling over some of the swords, koshirae and armour being offered.

 

What I didn't expect was to see was something quite different to anything I've ever bought before but never the less, caught my eye and tugged at my heart strings.

 

And here it is. It's a bronze figurine of a Hawk that I instantly fell in love with.

 

I have to say that Kelly was a 1st class act in all my communication with him. We instantly hit it off and his enthusiasm for the piece was infectious (which is important in my book)  because I trusted him to bid on the auction which he did. My shipping instructions were also demanding but he did all that I asked for and I received the hawk safely and well packed.  I can therefore thoroughly recommend his services but as a first time bidder on a Japanese auction, be aware that there are sale taxes and an export tax if the items sells for more than 200,000 yen. Kelly made me aware of this which I really appreciate because I was going to bid more than 200k.

Ben, yes there are nice things other than swords and armor on Yahoo Japan, you have a good eye and you are absolutely right on about Kelly as well, I never regret using Kelly's service, he is first class.

Now you're teasing me, Eric!

Moi....never, now some boxes are empty and some have interesting things inside.

 

On another note, something that strikes you immediately in Japan is the sheer obsession they have with wrapping things properly. I've had two large antique piece of Japanese furniture shipped to my country, and the company built a box out of massive wood for each. Not counting the five layers of covering inside and outside...It took me a day to clear the package. Unbelievable. In Europe you're lucky if they add a sheet of Styrofoam inside cardboard.

How many countries covered their wood boxes with a leather cover?

 

This removed a lot of gunk and dirt, and vent is now completely open.

 

Picture????

This is for John, wafuku-bako, not nearly as interesting as his jinbaori-bako, but the three items inside are very interesting, and rarely seen. Woven strips of bamboo?...which were then lacquered, the writing on top is mostly missing, there is a tag which was attached to one of the tie down rings when I got it, I do not know if the present contents were meant to go in it or not.

 

Ah yes ! The small jingasa should indeed fit in the hokai

 

That kubi-oke looks really creepy ! But, would be great to make one for re-enactment purposes.

Look in the bucket if you dare......

 

You could always test it with Luminol and blacklight estcrh to see if those stains are actually blood.

 

About that clipping of Taira no Masakado's head-bucket.

 

I now know why he is especially adament in his hauntings.of present day Tokyo.

 

http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2015/01/the-cursed-ghost-head-of-the-samurai/

Luminol...humm, after over 100 years, wonder if it would work?  Anyway, they really needed those head buckets as beheading was a favorite punishment...after the torture that is.

 

Hidashida Sadakata after his execution at the Awadaguchi execution grounds outside of Kyoto, he was beheaded and his head was put on public display (sarashikubi) for his involvement in the attack on the delegation of the British Consul-General in Japan (Sir Harry Smith Parkes) to the Meiji Emperor, February 1868.

 

There is a somewhat similar round container called a Kubibitsu, for placing the head of someone you have 'captured' on the battlefield. It has a sort of inner bucket with two geta slats to stand on; the external lacquered box has a domed top. Every castle would have at least one of these as a spare. Once used they were destroyed, so there are said to be very few extant.

Pier, I have seen  them being called "kubi-oke", and yes very rare.

 

Kubi-oke (head bucket), from the "Rock Hill Herald", early 1900s.

 

This is my kubi-oke, I have no idea if it is authentic, I have never seen another one like it.

 

Tsukudo shrine kubi-oke,

Try storing a Jingasa in that round Hokai.

 

Hahahahaha

I have jingasa stored in one of my hokai, the bagu-jingasa among others were not very wide.

 

These round (usually) "hokai" containers are interesting, and good for storing jingasa and hats in general. A few years ago there were a lot of antique examples for sale in Japan, now I do not see them very often. I have read many different uses for them including this one ("containers (kaibitsu) used for the kaiawase game. The matching of painted shells symbolizes faithfulness in marriage. A shell game set belonged often to the trousseau of a bride.")

 

Most examples of karabitsu have six legs and they were originally used to hold the so-called "Great Armours" - yoroi. If you look at images of these yoroi displayed, many of them are perched atop these karabitsu.

 

Perhaps this particular example did not house an armour?

The Met says they are four legged and no mention of armor storage or that this particular example has six legs, the Met's descriptions have been known to be wrong but not mentioning these as at least sometimes being for armor storage is really an oversight.

The hitsu / bitsu brought up by John, no mention of this one having six legs despite the description stating that these were four legged boxes, no mention of their use in storing armor either (yoroi hitsu / bitsu)???