Matsunoki

Me to. Interesting when something isn’t quite as obvious as it first appears. That really high nakago shinogi makes me think. Also it looks like it’s got a deep kasane. Not that my opinion counts for much🙂

If we look at the kasane of the blade compared to nakago it looks as if there is a very substantial difference even allowing for optical distortions (see below). That would suggest that if the blade was shortened it was done quite some time ago and was then followed by many polishes to create such a difference. That makes you think/wonder if it isn’t shortened but is in fact ubu or maybe just re-worked. Also with suriage would we not have stronger machi…..but there is virtually no hamachi…..again….ubu?…..or shortened a long time ago Also the nakago patina is very consistent But then we look at the hamon at the machi and it appears to flow into the nakago suggesting suriage….but of course that could just be an effect of polishing. And then there is that lower mekugi ana to contend with. Im wondering if it’s even older than we think…..and maybe it’s tired condition supports that? Edit…..visibly very high shinogi in the nakago. Is that Yamato den? I’m not too hot on Gokaden🙂

If it was an authentic but knackered Van Gogh, David Hockney, Monet, da Vinci, Kooning etc in a shop for €500 ……you’d leave it? You wouldn’t buy a tired but authentic Masamune….Kiyomaro etc in similar circumstances?…...unrecognised sleeping in an antique shop?

Well, what can we see in your images? (An image of the whole blade without habaki would help) The blade has obviously been polished many times and is a shadow of its former self. The kasane (thickness) of the nakago is far greater than that of the blade. The hada is not really discernible but we can see a lot of assorted forging flaws and openings. All the above suggests it’s an old blade that was perhaps not of the greatest quality to begin with. This in turn might suggest Koto, maybe late Muromachi….a time when many swords were hastily made. Hopefully others will offer opinions but the problem created by some members who post on here…..their attitude deters others from “having a go”. ..just an opinion……possibly wrong🙂

I don’t see anyone giving false hope or helpful words but neither did I see anyone giving helpful constructive comments or advice until Jacques felt obliged to explain himself. Better to try and explain what a “tired” blade is and why this looks like a very tired blade which to his credit Jacques has tried to do in his second effort although again he cannot resist attempting to assert his superiority (which is pretty pathetic and unhelpful against a beginner who is here asking for help) So yes, the blade has large areas of forging flaws and core steel showing. Yes the polish is not good with a heavy Hadori finish probably applied to hide or enhance a hamon that has been degraded by many polishes. So is a blade like this a useful learning piece?…..of course it is. Ivo now sees first hand with his own eyes some of the assorted issues that occur to greater or lesser extents on many blades. His eye will be greatly improved. …..and the best lesson and one that we all remember is the one we learned the hard way. We all started somewhere.

I looked. I saw the issues……but I thought we were trying to encourage constructive learning especially for those less experienced? Please point out the FATAL FLAW. …..and don’t bother trying to tell me what to do.

Another amazingly unhelpful contribution from someone who lectures us ad nauseam about not judging blades from images.

As usual, Dale saves the day! Amazing. Loads of research potential there. we are so lucky to have @Spartancrest🙂 Ignore my earlier reservations, it’s obviously a good piece.

@Spartancrest Dale…..ever seen anything like this one?…I mean the construction? Yes popular subject matter of course but hmmmmm……

I think so🙂

Strange tsuba. The brass side looks like it could be a shiremono pressing affixed over an iron plate? I even wonder if the iron plate is cast with mixed metal onlay. Shoki’s face looks shibuichi or maybe shakudo and the Oni is also mixed/patinated soft metal. Might look/feel totally different “in hand” but its definitely “unusual”

Ran, to stand a better chance of a sale you need to provide much better images especially of the blade. It is impossible to tell anything from these few pics. Hada? Hamon? Boshi etc

But I think if you do that you will still have to find a slimmer fuchi because the ito would be impacted when refitting the wider fuchi ie it would crush up into the ito…..unless you then rewrap it!

Piers, had another look and a think. Does that fuchi look far too big and heavy for a Tanto? Has someone put a Fuchi on that is too deep? Loos more katana sized. Has it been packed out internally to make it fit?…..and thus it’s not allowing the tsuka ana to line up? Maybe an option (to create space for a [narrow] tsuba) is to find a thinner fuchi and then just take a slice off the end of the tsuka thus shortening it from the fuchi end. Can you show an image of the tsuka without the fuchi and the internals of the fuchi. I love puzzles like this but difficult to explain what I mean ….🙂

Hi Piers Looks an elegant ubu koto blade…..not everything has to be in perfect polish (imo!) ……lovely saya. Hamon/boshi looks healthy in these pics. Wonder if the fuchi is a replacement? Trouble with getting it repolished…..means shirasaya which then means tsunagi which then means the blade can’t really go back into it’s original saya which seems a pity…..but then I like “original packages” that can stay assembled together.

Skulls very common in some superb netsuke, okimono etc Several topics on this forum eg (Search Nozarashi

Stephen, I’ve often used the really thick cardboard tube that carpets are rolled on. Have you got a friendly carpet shop anywhere near? They usually have loads of them kicking around storage areas. They are strong as hell and can be cut to any length you need. You might have to ship the sword disassembled due to the curvature. I bolt the oiled and wrapped blade to a smooth pice of wood and pack the koshirae around it. Cap each end with plywood or similar. If done properly it is virtually bomb proof.

Many genuine swords from all periods have a straight hamon (suguha) but sadly this blade is a fake……but it seems you already knew this.

Hope you get sorted soon Brian. Wishing you the best.

Like I said earlier, it’s a matter of personal opinions/interpretations. There is no “legal definition” neither from the days of the Samurai nor in our modern world. It means different things to different people and it’s all been said before. I’m sure many martial artists have a good knowledge of swords, their history etc etc (many on this Forum) but I’ve also met some who talk the biggest load of bollocks and obviously don’t have a clue so I wouldn’t put too much reliance on that variety as being expert witnesses.

What constituted a daisho for the Samurai of the time would depend very heavily on how “wealthy” they were…anything from a matched pair of blades in matching koshirae (maybe some Daimyo) to any old two swords that hopefully looked roughly the same. Regulations existed but I doubt they were strictly complied with unless in important castles/court. Remember most Samurai were impoverished and though their swords were their most precious possession they were still governed by their budget. However our modern views on what constitutes a Daisho have been well debated here and really depend on our own personal opinions. There is no “hard and fast” single accepted definition. Again…anything from matching blades made at same time by same smith (in shirasaya with no koshirae) to the same but with matching koshirae (hugely rare) …..and then all the way down to any old two swords that have roughly the same looking koshirae…..or not! ….just an opinion.

Howard, dealing firstly with the construction, the dish itself will be copper and the rim and foot rim could be gilded copper or brass. Silver was rarely used for the actual body (apart from some ginbari enamels), not even by the likes of Namikawa or Hayashi. These dishes usually employ a brass alloy for the wires which is sometimes gilded. Silver wires are found on more expensive examples but from the images we can’t really tell what your wiring on the front is made from. The swirl pattern on the back will most likely be brass and the swirls are there to hold the counter enamel paste securely during firing. The reverse needs to be counter enamelled to keep it stable during firing or it distorts and cracks upon cooling. These plates and dishes were made in vast quantities during Meiji (this is Meiji C1890 ish) by numerous scattered studios and unless signed (very few are) it is not possible to pinpoint a maker…..there were many. They were aimed as usual at the gaijin market in Japan and later for mass export. The quality can vary hugely as can the aesthetics of the design. Hawks, falcons and owls were all massively popular subjects in Japan and yours shows a Goshawk (??haven’t actually checked the bird book) hitting a nest of sparrows. It looks a better quality piece with lovely colour graduation etc. The chick falling out of the nest is a bit sad🙂 Overall looks to be a better quality piece with a dramatic scene. ……hopefully not damaged?

Sorry Mick but it is reserved. If the deal falls through I’ll message you. Apologies. Colin.

Tsuba is 100% fake so chances are the rest follows suit.

Oh noooooooooo, the pain!!!!