Bob M.

Having watched the developing discussions on this thread , and in particular the recent very interesting historical info. on this blade, a few thoughts come to mind.....

There is obviously a strong basis for the 'cult status ' of Kiyomaro blades and this is found in the quality of the workmanship. Have the other aspects of his life - small output/drink problems/suicide etc. - actually altered perceptions to the extent that his work is no longer dispassionately

viewed ? ( No lack of passion on the board either .)

With many old blades we 'buy into' a sense of history . The Kiyomaro output is not generally old enough to have acquired its own history - it would appear that their makers life story has substituted - truely an art ( artists ) sword !

Hi Eric,

Very interesting - Would there be an oshigata of the Katsumitsu tanto mentioned in the text ?

I wonder how many of the blades featured are still in private European collections and if any have been papered to a higher level.

Do you happen to know if the Kiyomaro got the polish/reappraisal it was apparently due for ?

As a side issue to the points raised re. papers status , would anybody like to hazard a guess as to the level of points/paper that the Kiyomaro would get from the NTHK ?

We always seem to be discussing NBTHK levels as a reference but the irony is that for collectors in the States and Europe , we are more likely to come across one of the NTHK shinsas usually in conjunction with an arms fair or show.

Am I right in thinking that NTHK shinsas outside Japan will only award points to a certain level ?

Kiyomaro tanto up for sale on Aoi Art.

http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/sale/07228.html

A snip at $94,500.00 ?

I knew his work was sought after but not the apparent value of it.

Still it just goes to show that the combination of a genius and a dissolute lifestyle are very attractive to a lot of collectors.

I wonder if a collector in the 1840's turned up at his forge and said 'That's a fantastic blade you've made for me - let's have a drink to celebrate ......'

Just curious as to any NMB members/participants who should be atttending the above meeting .....

I should be there and will be inflicting a few items on the gathering for some ( hopefully ) expert advice or general amusement .

Hi Stephan,

Based on a recent visit (mid. April ) I would say that the British Museum is best avoided unless you are looking for non nihonto items. There was very little on display , and what was on show was mounted too far back in the display cases to give anything more than a general impression.

The Japanese Gallery is as far away as you can get from the main entrance - at the back and on the top floor - but it is interesting for a more general view of Japan and its arts , showing some nice netsuke for instance. It is possible to arrange for a private viewing of the extensive sword collections - you will need to contact them by e-mail . Some form of accreditation/references will probably be required.

If you do decide to go to the British Museum then it might be worthwhile checking out the bookshop located near the entrance to the section housing the Japanese Gallery.

The V&A is, usually , a better choice - I understand that it is also sometimes possible to arrange private viewings there.

Hope you enjoy your stay.

Hi Ludolf,

Thanks for your reply - Very interesting.

Perhaps I can ask another question or two of anyone willing to aswer :

What is your opinion on gimei signatures on tsuba - there is an on-going debate on the board about gimei on swords and whether this is a part of their history or if they should be treated as a disease and ruthlessly eliminated - we do not seem to be so passionate about tsubas , is this a value thing ?

Do people have gimei signed tsubas rectified ?

Perhaps I am being naive ( and I do realise that I am leaving myself open for comment on this ) but I've tried to acquire both swords and fittings on the basis of workmanship and interest , with papers/guarantees being a secondary consideration - at least at the lower end of the market.

Is workmanship or authenticity of equal or greater merit to each other ?

All views welcome !

Please let me have any thoughts/comments on this tsuba - particularly where the mei is concerned.

Suggestions have been made that the tsuba might be 2nd line Goto...

I do not have enough knowledge to be able to form an opinion.

Jury's out on that - but I'd let them polish my weapon any day - just don't know which style....

Opinions, please .

Does anybody think that the tsuba/box make sense as a package or are we looking at somebody's fantasy and not a real tsuba ( although in the view showing the bridge ,there appears to be a discolouration indicating mounting ).

Thanks for all the interest.

Hi Curran,

Thanks for your interest/help - much appreciated.

I like your posted tsuba very much .The quality of work is really good and that is one of the things that I look for initially in the swords and tsubas that I collect.

My taste is rather eclectic and so I go for anything that I like without regard to age or particular field . Having said that , the 'unusual' is (as you can probably see from the posted tsubas ) always an attraction.

Will try to post a few more items over the coming weeks.....

Bob

O.K. Tsuba as promised (maybe not worth the wait).

Bob M.

Hi Nobody,

Thanks for your help on this - do you think that the date refers to the hakogaki or the tsuba ? Although I suppose that it must be the hakogaki.

I will post pics of the tsuba shortly - on the reverse there is an image of a bridge ( probably early 20th century ) together with fireworks . Maybe a celebration of opening ? This might relate to the Sumida reference on the top of the box.

Bob M.

Hi Stephen,

You are right - this is a spectacular tsuba, although not in a conventional way. I have avoided putting the pics on the Board until after getting as much info. as possible, as I have found that others who have seen it become less than objective.

Incidentally , the tsuba was up for sale in Japan about 2years ago.

Bob M.

Hi,

Photo of mei attached - I understand it to refer to a joint work with Itou Shinsui...

Thanks!

Bob M.

Any help that could be given with translation of the attached would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Bob M.

Understand the tsuba to be by Momoe at age 63 in autumn 1860 (Manen 1) - any other info. would be very useful .

I have attached a closer (clearer ? ) image.

Thanks for the interest.

Bob

I understand it to be mid 19th cent. , Ichi-ryu school ( Mito ) by Mitsuyoshi. The inscription on the front face says about accepting orders for this tsuba.

Maybe a 'tourist' piece ?

Opinions anyone ?

Bob M

Seem to remember some discussion a few weeks back concerning wood/leather etc. tsubas , but I cannot find the topic .

Hope this is of some interest.

Bob M

While playing with a new camera , I came across this tsuba in my collection - just thought it might be on topic.

I believe it was made as an exhibition piece.

Bob

Have re-shot the same tsuba in natural light - I think it looks a little better.

I must have a play with the colour balance functions as it is difficult to rely on good natural light . Thanks for all the suggestions , please keep them coming...

Bob Morrison

Revised rear image...

Is there an optimal size for images like this ? Also some advice on lighting would be appreciated - I have been using a mix of standard incandescent flood light and halogen spot.

Thanks !

Bob Morrison

Is this any better ?

Bob Morrison

Just checking out a new camera with a random tsuba image - this should have been resized - is it O.K. ?

Bob Morrison

Hello Steve,

Heard that an NTHK shinsa is being worked on for either later this year or more likely next with probable venue in Kent. Not 100% sure which group it will be , but unlikely to be NPO .

Will Post if I hear any more.

Bob