Bruce Pennington

@Shamsy @Stegel another one for the records.

Links to other blades with the mei: Tanrenjo Mei - Stu W Can someone please help me identify this - dominator315 Kai Gunto - Ed Wolf Nice Naval Officers Sword - Ed Hicks Tsuba and Gunto mei Translation Needed - truelotus Translation Help - mdiddy Assistance with mei Please - b.hennick Translation - daishobohi And the tally went up to 18, 16 with mei.

Barry's post seems to be the best one for a continuing line on the Tenshozan Tanrenjo mei blades. I've gotten 16 Tenshozan blades on file now, 13 with the forge mei. The latest comes from a friend with what may be the first one sighted of it's kind - one with a bohi. I've seen navy blades with bohi, on rare occasion, but I've searched and cannot see that I've ever come across a Tenshozan Tanrenjo mei blade with one. Dated March 1942, so the third earliest on file with the anchor stamp and second earliest with the mei.

Wanted to post an update to 2 stamps previously in the 'unknown' category in the Stamps Doc. Thanks to @mecox's newest tome - Showa Swordsmiths of Aichi Prefecture, I can now tie them to specific smiths. The "diamond" stamp is found on the work of Kuniyasu: Mal uncovered 5 blades with this stamp, all Kuniyasu. One even has 2 diamond stamps: Of course, we still don't know the meaning or significance of them, but they seem to be specific to this smith, unless they show up someplace else in the future. The other is the "delta" stamp, or triangle. It's seen on Masayasu blades. Mal shows blades with 1, 2, 3, and 4 of them: I've been working on an update for the Stamps Doc and I'll be sure to include this new information. Thanks again to Mal Cox for the great work!

Let's see your Nagoya Type 95 NCO gunto!

Very well could be. I mention the island swords, too, because this is how their nakago always look. If this were the case for yours, it's still a Japanese officer sword, but simply made "over there somewhere".

Oh, it's hurting my eyes!!! Dang, two of these. They must be late war. With what we know about sword production being moved out of country in the last year, I wonder if these were made in occupied territory. It's the first thing I thought about when I saw the "workmanship" of those nakago.

I want to post these two from a discussion on the Translation Forum, to consolidate the items to this topic. One is a souvenir for sale on fleabay (mislabeled as a Navy kaigunto - seller notified) and the other posted by @MacTheWhopper HERE. They are interesting because both blades were made by Toyosuke, a Toyokawa Navy blade in Type 98 fittings, and the other in souvenir fittings. Toyosuke in Type 98 fittings: Toyosuke in Souvenir: So, either this smith was actively making swords both before and after the war, or as a minimum, there were surplus blades of his to use by Tenshozan after the war. Still doesn't prove either case, but I found it fascinating to see blades of the same smith in both wartime and post-war fittings.

Thanks guys! And thanks for the links for that other you Moriyama-san! This makes for an interesting turn of events. It shows blades made by Toyosuke in both war fittings - @MacTheWhopper's Type 98 - and in souvenir fittings. So either the smith was still working for the forge making the souvenirs after the war or the blade was surplus. So, it doesn't clear up the question of whether some of the souvenir blades were surplus, but it's a "real life" example of a smith's blades on both sides of the war's end.

I'll make a post to say "I don't know what to say!" Your guess sounds as logical as anything I could speculate.

I don't have a close-up of it. Maybe @charlie1 does.

Trystan, Here are the photos I have on file. Don't know the source.

Just seeking clarification, and I'm no expert on WWII arsenals, but I cannot find a Tokugawa Navy Arsenal. There was a Tokugawa shogunate in Aichi way back when, but all I find in WWII is the Toyokawa Navy Arsenal in Nagoya, Aichi, hence the circled anchor stamp on these blades. Forgive my ignorance, but is Mr. Plimpton alive, and is he available for email correspondence? To me, this is still sounding too much like the post-war souvenir put out by the Tenshozan factory under the Toyokawa arsenal. While the regulations loosened up for quality standards in the last year of the war, I cannot imagine the uniform regulations allowing for mixed Army/Navy fittings. Now, I'll remind myself of the adage "Never say never, nor always, with WWII gunto." When I first started studying this oddity, I was likewise wondering if they started using all available parts to assemble whatever gunto they could manage. But after finding the documentation proving that Tenshozan was making souvenirs, and had an example with take-home papers, it is more conceivable to see these as post-war made, rather than late-war made. So, I'd be interested to learn if Mr. Plimpton has other evidence verifying this particular style was made before war's end.

Can't make out the first kanji. Appreciate the help! It's on a post-war souvenir Toyokawa blade.

Grey, Is that a quote from the upcoming book? It would explain a lot, and would be very useful information to know. Like I said above, this seems to be a precursor to what Tenshozan put out for the Army PX after the war.

Dang, ruined a really good whine I had going! Just proves the point that "It can always be worse!" Ha!

@DTM72 - Dan, nice group, hope you can keep them all. Check out this article on what is mistakenly called a “Navy landing sword.” It’s Army, most of all. The discussion explains the rest. Looking forward to photos! https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/legally-rebutting-existence-type-3-army-officers-sword-708745/

If Brian would give us a raise, we could hire editors to proofread our work! But this is such a low budget operation, I have to make my own coffee!!

The souvenirs sell for 400 $ to 500 US$. All the fittings are army, not Navy. People get tricked by the Black scabbard paint, but there were plenty of army swords with black painted scabbards. It can also be confusing to see a navy stamped blade in army fittings. That did happen, but was not common.

+ 1

Purely speculation, but I wonder if something like this might explain one of the Mantetsu waki on file. I have 2. One was clearly cut down to make the waki, as the mei is cut, whereas the other was clearly made as a waki with intact mei. Maybe someone had a damaged blade, like this one, and had a repair team or smith cut it down and make a waki from it. Cut down Original:

Hmmmmm..................... This has all the appearance of one of the post war souvenir gunto made by the Tenshozan Factory. Read this ARTICLE ON THE POST WAR SOUVENIR. But the souvenir, until now, always had a rounded steel tsuba, and more gilded metal fittings. It's only a guess, but my thinking is that it's one of the first versions of the souvenir. There's certainly a chance it's a late-war gunto. The only thing not "army" is the black fabric same'. But I've seen a good number of these and the overall look is of the souvenir gunto.

Not sure why I had earlier posted that my only gunto with celluloid was that RS, because my 1941 Mantetsu has it as well. Like George's, mine hasn't yellowed, just some aging patina. The yellowing of some may be due to amount of exposure to the elements? I have seen celluloid same' in various years, but they do seem to appear more in the last couple of years of the war. This may be due to a military order for all weapons makers to avoid using animal products, due to shortages. Nick Komiya posted the order on Warrelics (don't have the link at the moment).

Thanks Thomas! I had the 2 '44s, but they aren't star-stamped. I've added the star-stamped '45. Interesting that they were making these earlier, but no star. Maybe someone at Korkura thought their blades deserved the recognition (i.e. his career portfolio) and submitted some blades to the RJT people for qualification? Or maybe it was someone distributing the tamahagane and realized the Kokura factory blades deserved the star? Wish we knew.

Right! So, no further speculation as to it's true meaning in life? Letter opener? Souvenir? Re-purposed kozuka? I'll start with the deer antler method and go from there.