Mantis dude

Ok I am running into all these items. I think these are good size owl menuki http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g88068070. No more until I find female fittings, did see some but they are "repros" so those don't count.

I think so far we have proven that every theme has been used except geisha and strippers on fittings.... wait, I can't remember but have I seen real shungru sword fittings? They might have been modern, I didn't pay attention. Some of the older collection books like Naunton and a few others have some great menuki pictures along with others where I have seen a lot of different themes. I remember seeing snakes in one of those (one mentioned before). Maybe a set of menuki straight bars I saw were really stripper poles! Poles http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/130801640

You would think there would be some feminine themes- is it not true that many tanto were carried by samurai women? Obviously where the hello kity menuki on the previous page came from.... no disrespect to any female readers of course.

Hi all, Just figured I scan this photo in from a Rei catalog (#171-5) from token shibata of an elephant kozuka. Just came across it as I was going through some that I have. By the way, These Rei or is it Rai catalogs are very good reference material. They have lots of nice pics & oshigato of swords and fittings. A few times they have come in handy. As for Dragonfly's, I see them all the time and in my uneducated experience are the most depicted insect out there no matter the form of fitting (tsuba, menuki, etc). Enjoy! Ken

Thanks Malcolm, mostly I was trying to confirm my book title translation. I actually was doing the translation today on the book tittle and coincidentally found the auction for the book later on. All the best. Ken

Hi all, Just so happens I own this book that I found another copy on auction in Japan. I translated it as "uchikatana no inshi tsuba hakaru setsu" how far off am I? Thanks. of course it would be nice to have the rest of what they said translated as well. http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e103044538 I appreciate anyone's help.

I always check that site and post it once in a while. Some of those designs are good and with a bit of aging, I could definitely see being sold. So I think it is important to know what they are making, just in case. there is a mantis design that I really like and would have likely gone for it if I had seen it being sold on an auction site. Those are a step up from the cheap casting and I believe there is some hand work which can serve a purpose especially for the martial art crew but also can be dangerous. Anyway glad I could help.

This is close, the head is just positioned a bit differently http://www.samurai-nippon.net/T-370/index.html

did you look through this site? modern copies http://tsubaryuken.com/main.html

That is exactly what the article was saying! It was an article labeled "The Mon As A Design Element of Tsuba" by Saulius Ploplys in the Kokusai Tosogu Kai 5th International Convention & Exhibition. The KTK is a relatively new organization dedicated to fittings comprised of some prominent collectors from around the world- I just boosted some egos making them prominent. lol. In all seriousness, they produce a catalog of members select sword fittings as well as contain commentary from the owner on why they selected the piece, etc. I have purchased every catalog and I find them nicely done with great photos. I think each member has to sell x amount of catalogs per year. I am pretty sure there are some KTK members on this board who could comment more. I know some of the major sword book dealers carry them. As to your comment, this article appeared at the end of the catalog and the author stated that especially with a mon, there would be no room for artistic interpretation; the basic sentiment being who would they be to change a "Lord's Mon". It was a very interesting read in my opinion backed up with some excellent examples to back up his statements. There... you made me get up, grab the book and cite the exact names. I have no affiliation with the group other than a fan of their catalogs which have run under $100 every year so far, I think they have been something like $50-90 depending on the year. I think I deserve a free catalog next year for this ad...lol. Enjoy!

Pattern books are on yahoo.jp all the time. I am not sure how old they are (since I am not looking to buy them). I would think there are books that have been made say in the 1700's and 1800's etc. I think many that are for sale are probably late 1800's. In fact, I believe either it was the JSS/US or NCJSC reprinted an owari (?) pattern book over several issues (can't remember exact details) within the past few years. Just a kudo's to John Grasso, I have had many positive dealings with him. He is a good guy and trustworthy. I have seen several times and handled some tsuba that were almost identical. I have seen several tsuba that matched the first mantis tsuba I was given. I believe it is Aizu shoami, but It's partner is Mito. In fact, I saw more of these. The mantis just matches perfectly, the only difference was the quality of the base steel. I have read that is likely that the same smiths went back and forth from both mito and aizu.

Just a comment on the family mon, I just finished reading the KTK's last book and there was an interesting article on the themes of tsuba as it mostly related to mon's and how a book on variations of mon's would be quite useful, since there were many slight variations over the ages of mons. The Author showed how some tsuba might be attributable to a specific person based on a the combining of family mons and perhaps the marriage of the 2 families. One of the most simple points was that when a sword is drawn the tsuba would be at a certain angle (different than it just resting in the saya) and you would see the family mon as it is more normally displayed. Overall the article called for a task that would definitely help in id'ing which family mon's and even further potential attribution to specific individuals, as well as, helping to define what the tsuba was truly representing (also would help date a tsuba). Just an off handed comment that just came to mind.

I know the dreaded shoami attribution is hated but I have seen several pieces (I think some papered ones even) attributing similar type guards to shoami school. Aizu shoami is another one that may have done some work like this as well. Just trying to input what I think I remember. All the best.

This is a general comment, I remember the first time I looked under a loop at a set of menuki with gold covering. It was amazing at what you could see with magnification that your regular eye misses. I was looking at what turned out to be an old monoyama set of menuki with gold inlay(really overlay), applied in a similar style to the above at least on looks. When looking through the loop, I was able to see that the gold edges in lots of areas was actually crinkled up- think of tearing tinfoil and seeing the edges of the foil get smooshed in. The gold was overlayed by uttori method. so when looking through the loope you were able to tell that the spotty effect of gold was most likely not intentional. The gold was worn or torn and the excess edges had smashed down after being torn. None of this was seen by the naked eye and that just caught me off guard by how much you can't see and how much magnification revealed the inlay/overlay method. If you are seeing cross hatching that most likely means that the gold was inlayed by pounding the gold into the grooves unlike gilding where mecury was used to join the gold to the base metal. If you didn't know gilding with mercury was a nice method of getting sick and many makers didn't live long, nothing says blood poisoning like playing with mecury. I believe mecury was an old method of application and can help date a piece but I am not sure if its use was used throughout the centuries or not. Anyway, the point is, a loupe can expose a lot and reveal a lot about how the piece was made. Just rereading the comments above, I don't think uttori method was done with hatching either although I may be wrong, I think it was overlaying the gold but anchoring it down around the edges. Therefore it is easy to pick the gold off while the mercury gilding method is a much stronger bond of the gold to the base metal. I would agree on the cross hatching as an indication of nunomezogan and not gilding (the pounding in vs bonding method).

I have seen plenty of mino work without gold inlay. In fact, Fred had a great shakudo piece on his site that had no gold decoration a while back. I am always curious about mino work since it can be so standardized, although there can be a lot of very similar pieces with subtle differences. Some however are exact copies. I wondered were there just outfits of samurai all having the same fittings. Certainly the fuchi/kashira of mantis/bell insect and autumn flowers are very common. Mino obviously had good taste with their use of the mantis in so many of their designs :D

Grey, You have to admit it is a nice casting of the sekigane. That is the first time I have seen that but then again I don't study casts alot. That is kind of funny. That one goes under strange and plus we have a new thing to add to the list of casting giveaways- sekigane is part of the seppa dai in iron. I can't stand lazy casters. Although, in all seriousness, if this was from a mounted blade and the owner for some reason wanted a copy then I could see there a desire not to muck with the existing piece and therefore it was cast as is. Plus how do you date the cast piece? itstll Henry.... Can you elaborate, first time I heard of this, I always heard to look for signs of folding - not particular to akasaka per say but that signs of folding was positive and showed the plate being worked which was a good thing. Interesting to hear something new. Thanks. Ken

I think it should be commented that while this is most likely a cast piece, a line like that on an iron tsuba could be an indication of a fold (well maybe not exactly like that), I don't have an example of some akasaka pieces that demonstrate but maybe someone else does or some other school where you can really see the fold. Point is a line running down the inside of the side wall doesn't automatically mean cast, it could also mean fold which is very desirable to see. The hare and waves is a very common, i can't remember exactly been a while but the rabbit under the moon has a meaning of reproduction (sexual) I think. Most of my books are packed away for a move, but that is popping into my head. I of course could have made that up, maybe I am just horny. LOL. These repros (chinese or whereever they are from) all seem to have a similar look and if you go on ebay or yahoo.jp, you usually can find the same seller selling a lot of them. Doesn't take long to start recognizing them when you see a bunch of them. You get that "feel" for them so you don't have to waste your time looking at them when scanning auctions. Just curious while on the topic, has anyone ever seen an article or discussion on real Japanese cast tsuba? over the years there has been some mentions here and there on the forums, but has there ever been a more academic discussion? I am still under the impression that casting has been done before modern times? Has anyone ever seen older cast pieces, say pre meiji? I have an older one but I wouldn't know how to date it. Maybe I will write about it after I move and I can take pics of it (it is packed away, actually I have 2 of them and that is how I learned it was cast). The clues became more apparent with closer insepection but it fooled several experienced guys because it looked old. it took more of a second look to id the cast clues. However, as I said I didn't even question the piece until I had purchased a second one. Subsequently I have seen one or 2 more on yahoo.jp over the years. My first one was mounted on a wakisashi that seemed to fit well and I assume had been mounted for a long time. The good news was while I purchased the wak for the tsuba, I sold the wak minus the tsuba and made $50 so I actually got the tsuba for free. Oh the early days of ebay.

perhaps an amateur tracer? haha. File that under what is he trying to tell us? or why is he doing that with an obviously different blade drawing. Not a professional marketer. And in nihonto, you guys are anal retentive and very detailed oriented, these are the type of things that can bother the group! he needs an education on the average collector in this hobby. (cheap shot at all of us). This is a detail oriented crowd.

I had a teacher in elementary school who did a peace corps type thing and spent some time in Ghana. The left hand was the "bathroom" hand and therefore it was rude to use that hand with someone else. You were supposed to take something with the right hand then put it in your left. They would slap a student's hand with a ruler if he used his left. So there is a rationale behind it and in what we know about today/how disease is passed, it totally makes sense. As much as you may not like it... ass to mouth is how a lot of germs are spread. Although, as a lefty I find it horrible, we have feelings too you know! Good thing lefties are smart and can use both sides of their brain. I write with my left but play most sports with my right. Bowling and darts are 2 sports I am not sure which hand to use. I do remember seeing I think it was on ebay a sword setup for a lefty. It wasn't a tachi koshorie so it had to be worn for a lefty and was the only way it was to be worn facing down.

I am continuing to kick myself on this tsuba. Mikolaj was kind enough to share it with me when he got it. He didn't know but I was actually the underbidder on it and didn't think there was any competition for it so I didn't put a high bid in. So instead of having 70 tsuba, I only have 69. At least if Mikolaj ever sells it, I know how much he paid. . Wait it is definately a gime and it is junk, he should just get it out of his collection. I will be a friend and take it from him. lol. All the best.

Thanks guys for the responses.

Hi all, Helping translate this mei for a friend. I have attached a pic of 3 shots of the sig (basically the same but some are less blurry than others, etc). He had trouble photographing it so this is the best I have. I think we have it translated to minomoto yoshishige (or yoshikei). I didn't find any mei in Hawley's like that. Wondering if anyone has any input on it? I was thinking it could be an undocumented smith or entry missing/wrong in Hawleys or possible a gimei for Hankei who also signed shigeyoshi but used different kanji and perhaps they didn't realize that? All help is appreciated. Thanks. Ken

Thanks for all the responses, didn't notice replies. The one thing I consistently run into is a simple lesson "its the plate stupid". Now if I can only learn what is a good plate and get opportunities to handle them. I think it is in that introduction of the Tsuba aesthetic study where the sensei talks about the plate. Would I love an example like that in the book!!! Barry that piece reminds of a guard I saw in a book at some point. If I get time, I will try and find it, although all my books have papers hanging out of them, somehow a piece of paper falls in a page with a mantis item. There are a lot of guards with a similar design of that tsuba but what sort of sticks out in my mind is the design of the mantis which is a bit different. Even without my bias, there are some very nice guards out there done with a mantis theme. These designs are also copied on lower quality plates. So at first glance they look alot alike but with closer inspection the quality starts to stand out. The whole Nara, Mito, Aizu shoami how to differentiate would be something I would love to learn. Anyone have a Nara, Mito collection to go hands on with? I think that tsuba doesn't go well with your friends sword and he should find a different to mount on it. Since I am a nice guy I will take it off his hands. Cheers Mates! (I love the opportunity to speak in my down under voice)

Chuck, Just a quick comment or 2, don't put too much into ebay, you will get a distorted view of the market. Ebay is filled with junk and occasional good stuff sometimes. But the level of collector is all over the place on ebay with too many people that don't know anything. Even the Japanese use ebay (US) to sell stuff that wouldn't go in Japan. Fittings of course have a value on a sword, however, I get the impression if you were to sell (or buy) fittings separately, prices would be higher. In other words, it seems the sum of the parts is more than the package. There are a lot of factors though that go into pricing. Gold inlay is used alot but your style is a bit different. In general, the more parts that match, the rarer they are, especially in good condition (obviously condition is a big factor). There are tons of different themes and styles and some are more common (as in dragons) than others (there is a 3 volume book set on fitting themes- plus a ton of other books that delve into the theme topics). While they go together, just remember that fittings and sword blades are separate studies so you find many collectors that specialize in one or the other although they aren't mutually exclusive. It is just so much to study that to become knowledgeable in one area is hard enough let alone 2. If you want to get a better feel for pricing, go to say Rich Stein's site and find links to the commercial sellers section. a few others have good links, even this site does I think. Browse those sites, you will more likely see quality pieces. You can also look at yahoo.jp - ebay in Japan failed, yahoo is the dominant online auction there. It is in Japanese obviously and there are plenty of repros there also but overall, I see a bit better level of quality (more often than ebay) but the quality is less than on the commercial sites. I don't expect to be anything more than a beginner with occasional insights into some things, still I find pricing to be one of the hardest things to get a handle on, since I don't deal in swords everyday and prices really are set or largely influenced in Japan. Since I have a slight obsession with praying mantis themed fittings I have a better idea of some types of fittings since I have dealt with them more often. There has been a change in pricing these past few years, the economy obviously has had an impact and prices are down. However, some maintain their old pricing (and likely aren't selling much) while others have dropped their prices a bit. However, the damn yen is more expensive than it was a few years ago against the US dollar and things cost me 20-30% in exchange rates. so many factors!!!!! Ok just some real ramblings. Good luck!

I saw that to, it is sad. Well it is going to be those guys that don't really know even the most basics that are really going to pay. Knowledge has value obviously. The few times I have gone to a military show, I am amazed at the garbage I hear by the "dealers". "if a sword isn't signed, it isn't valuable". It was hard for me to tell them that even if it is signed it is likely a fake signature anyway. lol. Fake papers, etc will just be more ammunition for the uniformed. It is hard to tell these military show guys much, how do you teach nihonto 101 in 5 minutes? Half the guys are so cynical they think you are lying to them to rip them off anyway. For some reason they seem to believe the bad information. So even when you have good intentions, you can't win. I guess if you can inform just one guy about the truth of a piece, you did your part. With even WWII machine blades selling for a few hundred+ there is just too much money to rob people. And for real collectors, well even more reason to stay on your toes and don't take anything for granted.