Mantis dude

Ford et al,

Appreciate the comments. I think one of the hardest things to tell especially with most of us having to rely more on the internet/books for learning is the identification of what type of metals are being used. And as some responses indicate there is a wide range of knowledge on the subject matter. Some responses in this and other forum topics clearly indicate that certain members studied subjects very different than my undergraduate political science major with a minor in film studies. So as I try to progress my studies, I have realized at times simple basic knowledge on base metals is lacking (among other areas). I have been fortunate to have held some pieces but I don't have a consistent way to learn hands on. Obviously, I'm not the only one. I have known since I started that hands on experience is a must. It has amazed me that you can feel quality in some pieces. Afterall, isn't Ford's studies bringing to light things we collectively didn't know or had been forgotten? And since Ford is busy enough and I don't think has time to show up at each of our houses to teach us I appreciate any clues or descriptions that can help me learn. Now I have a target for finding out the "gummy " feeling. Thanks for everyone's input and hope for more as time goes on. All the best

Ken

Hi all,

As I have been catching up on posts, I started thinking about a fuchi kashira I had. The f/k was black but had condition issues. It was cheap and I Sent it one of Ford's disciples to restore it. Turned out it wasn't shakudo at all, actually was copper and it didn't go back to black. The coloring formula lost to the ages (maybe). I use to think black = shakudo. With the f/k in mind , as well as, mino fittings that try to mimic shakudo I started thinking that there must be more out there. So my next question is how do you tell if it really is shakudo or not? Ignoring the shakudo quality subject unless relevant to the conversation. Any hints or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Faking is not modern. All those meiji period tourist pieces are antiques now. I have a kozuka, I got it for the design (yes a mantis was involved) early in my collecting. Didn't pay a lot, also didn't pay a lot of attention to it. A few years ago, purchased a dinner knife/kozuka (assumed it was meiji). Again, it was for the design. The dinner knife reminded me of something but I wasn't sure of what. When I received the dinner knife, the handle had the same design on either side and I realized why the design was familiar- it was exactly the same as the kozuka i had purchased many years ago (coloring differences did obscure it a little). Made me realize I really have to pay attention to all purchases. The kozuka version was old, I knew it wasn't a national treasure but I still thought it was a "real" kozuka. Casting never crossed my mind. A good lesson and luckily not an expensive one. So not only do you have an influx of newer repros but you also have over a hundred years of repros continually hitting the market.

One thing I have found useful at times is when you do find a store selling modern stuff take a look around the inventory. Seeing one of those designs on an auction can help raise your alarm bells. Most of the time you can tell but I come across a few items where I might have had a harder time telling in photos. Anything that makes you more aware can help.

Happy hunting

Am I seeing remnants of a signature?

Best

Ken

Not sure if this applies but I was given a book on Japanese garden design from a distant cousin who when alive was a major collector of bonsai trees. She had interesting stories like when she was flying back from Japan with a 200 year old bonsai on her lap- obviously this was back in the 1960 or 70's. The purpose of the zig zag bridge is to slow you down, make you take your time, pause and enjoy the scene or this case enjoy the irises.

I agree. I have seen this style many times. Seeing an attribution to bushu is an important data point for me since I haven't seen a lot of these assigned to a school. Once or twice i have seen them labeled akasaka but they don't inlay in gold so I knew that wasn't correct. Always appreciate links thanks.

Ken

Thanks guys for the input. Now I have to repeatedly smack myself for not bidding on it. Lol (laughing covering up my crying). Hate to let an unique one go. Oh well, life goes on. All the best.

Ken

HI All,

Last night I found a tsuba going off auction this am. https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/d355994428. . I was debating is this just a tsuba depicting a skull or is it actually a mantis head?  Now before you jump to skull I like to submit a Katchussi tsuba  pictured in Sukashi tsuba by kokubo pg. 27.  I didn't have enough time to solicit opinions and while auction price went cheap, there seemed to be higher bids put in so I didn't bother raising it too much.  Opinions on the tsuba itself are welcome.  Thanks for input.  All the Best.

Ken aka "The Mantis Dude"

Ok I am not sure if this is a rabbit or not. Just so happens last night I was going through some miscellaneous items when I came across this menuki. After reading up on mythology of the badger i found 1 where basically the badger is smacked and killed by a transforming rabbit with an oar from a boat built by the badger. I was debating was it a Fox or rabbit but the longer ears made me lean to the rascally rabbit.. Picture isn't the greatest but how much effort can one put in to a non -mantis item? All the best .

Ken aka "the Mantis dude"

Hi all,

While I am not sure if there is a difference between iron and copper when casting, you are primarily looking for imperfections where the metal doesn't perfectly cool or fill in around the mold and/or the mold has imperfections itself (especially as it is used more often). Areas to look at are the carving edges like in a signature or certain design elements. When a chisel is used the edges are going to be crisp or sharp. Rounded edges could likely indicate molding. Seppa dai area is an obvious 1st place to look. Not only for crisp punch marks but is it smooth? Or does it have pot marks/divets like not all the metal cooled flat. When looking at the nanako: are the dots distinct or might some dots have excess metal attached. Each dot in a mold would have to have the metal perfectly formed around it which I would think leaves open a lot of opportunity for errors. likewise, Are there traces of metal at joints as in the case of sukashi tsuba. Often these remnants are filed away but not always. Obviously, you have to take the entire piece in and then look for these signs that don't look right. They can look pretty good at first or even second glance. Also, as I stated the molded pieces can be cleaned up, getting rid of the more obvious imperfections. It can also have real punch marks(crisp/sharp) since it was actually mounted. It can also be decorated with addition of gold/copper/shakudo tetc. which adds to hiding of its original moulding. As always, having in hand can help since you can't feel the edges in a photo. these are some of the things I would look at when evaluating a piece. Hope this helps.

Ken aka "the mantis dude"

Just to have some of these oddities (yes with mantis), I have tried to buy a few of these things in the past.  I have pissed off or disappointed a few sellers of these jewelry items.  I tell them as a collector of a single menuki i might pay $50. For the silver backing or other parts turning it into jewelry maybe a little more so I would offer them something like $75- 100 for something they wanted $400+.   They usually didn't like my breakdown since they themselves paid a lot more for them.  (this happened a few times).  It is what it is.  And yes a shame of some nice pieces being ruined.  

Junichi and I did an index of the books (just the index) several years ago. I'm not sure what happened to it though. Hopefully he will see this. I don't remember his handle on here.

Hi Ed,

I have seen others signed just mitsunaka without mino. So I don't think that's uncommon. I'm pretty sure it's mino and I think it is feasible it's one of the many that signed that way. Without going through signature books obviously I can't be certain. That's my comment. The bigger issue is finding the matching kashira which I'm pretty sure it was made with but singles do exist out there it's just hard to find a good matching piece. You can obviously find similar ones but finding something that really matches might be harder and requires really looking at how the plants/flowers and insects are designed. Best of luck.

Ken aka "the mantis dude"

For those that are looking for alternative storage ways, I have found some useful items for jewelry storage. Some of the jewelry trays use a material that you can use Velcro to stick so that you can create custom dividers between tsuba or you might be able to find already divided trays. It has been years since I bought anything but finding jewelry case trays/ storage should easily be found online. I like to be able to pull a tray out of all of 1 school and easily look at them all at once. Just throwing out alternative options. I have seen some older more traditional multi tsuba storage box trays once in a while that are kind of similar to the jewelry storage trays.

Ken aka "the mantis dude"

Hi all,

I figured I report that the auction ended at 158,000 yen (1450usd). Too bad the other bidders didn't realize what I did (with the confirmation of this group). That's the 2nd time I have seen similar repos go for that much money. Shame but this whole exercise really highlights just how vigilant you have to be. Wonder how these fakes feel in hand in comparison to the real thing - just as another indicator. Anyone let's hope we can reduce this from happening. All the best.

Ken

Thanks George for the casting overview. I never read the process of how it's done. Most informative. And I will agree Steve, knowledge is one of the best defenses. As time goes by I am starting to understand what those more experienced collectors were looking at as they examined a piece. One day, dare i say it, I might become a little knowledgeable...one day. Although this device's auto correction might kill me before that happens. Really appreciate the input and hope others take away some of these lessons.

All the best,

Ken aka"the mantis dude"

Nope never got a response which to me is a response. I think the seller like many other Japanese sellers list the same item on multiple auction sites. So it wouldn't surprise me that items are already sold. Of course gaigen listing prices are almost always higher.

As I used to say: "hey let's be careful out there" it applies to collecting as well as on Hill Street Blues.

Happy holidays to all.

I find this type of casting to be some of the most dangerous collectors can encounter. They looked much better than most fakes. Good thing it has been used on the same type/depiction. Really highlights the need to be ever villigent.

not sure if this has been covered but out of curiosity how many tsuba can be produced from 1 mold? Is it only once? Or can several be made? I assume it is a bit labor intensive? This only worthy of doing on high values pieces?

Not that this forum needs a statement of collector usefulness but it does highlight just how useful this forum can be.

Thanks again for making me just that much more knowledgeable. Happy holidays to all.

Ken "the mantis dude"

Hi all,

I came across this auction https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/d330610180which is very similar to this previously discussed thread http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/24700-it-is-real-kikuoka-mitsuyasu-daisho-set-or-a-copy/.  At first glance it looks good including the mei?  But after reading the previous thread, I started looking closer and I want to verify what I am identifying as a casting..  I noticed that the bee's antennae are not defined well and looks like a big casting spot mistake? Also the wings don't seem to be as good as in in the book example mitsuyasu book example tsuba insects.pdf.  Also there are several spots around the tsuba edge that seem muddled, especially on the backside of the tsuba (refer to auction) where it looks like the casting didn't take/wasn't defined. Am I correct in my assessment?  I have a picture of a similar tsuba with the similar or even worse issues that was  sold for $1700 back in 2015.  Obviously, I and I think all of us would want to avoid that mistake.

Thanks for any input.

Ken aka "the Mantis Dude"

Grey & Steve,

I appreciate both your inputs. To be truthful, I had no plans to bid on the ebay auction. I too thought price was high. As Grey stated it was hard to tell if it was the pics or the condition, hence my post. Also after posting, I realized that eBaY has a contact option so I am waiting for a reply.

I also have little experience with repatination, so I was curious what others would say. I remember the dilemma when I was collecting swords, when is restoration worth it? And while some who work in the area might say always (haha), it's always good to have input-from knowledgeable people that is (had to add last part in light of the new social media world). Thanks again

Ken

Didier

Of course it is hard to really tell with photos but I don't see the same kanji on your tsuba as the example.  So I would say most likely not. 

You might try making a rubbing over your signature area and more kanji might appear.  Then again, you might not get anything.  As someone that has tried multiple ways to see if you can get the rest of a faded mei, I can say that the exercise can be extremely frustrating.  Although, if successful most satisfying (been on both sides). 

Best of luck,

Ken 

HI all,

I was browsing and came across this tsuba.  Am I correctly seeing this as being cleaned and/or the patina has been removed?  If so, would it be worth it to fix (by a professional not me  ?).  Thanks for opinions.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Edo-Period-Mantis-Sukashi-TSUBA-Sword-Katana-Daito-Wakizashi-Koshirae/323558119024?hash=item4b55911670:g:cD8AAOSwdzhcBcIr:rk:32:pf:0

Luca,

I will get you the info and if you want i can send individual pics. But I move slow.

Steve& Barry thanks for the welcome back. I always check in just might be a month or 2 late. Granted not exactly an active way to participate. In fact i still need to look at older posts. I saw kaga and went to this topic.

of course I must inform everyone of my "mantis dudeness". There was a time when I was famous (haha). I had guys telling me about mantis fittings all the time. My mantis minions- Now it's mostly just Barry and he is veering off into steam punk mantids (Barry couldn't reply because of technical email issue). Now I even go online and find others owning mantis fittings (Mino fuchi kashira do not count plenty to go around for all). The world has changed.

Just to stay in the realm of the topic attached are some fuchi kashira (another bad photo sorry). The fuchi only is similar to the tsuba inlay although there might be too much glare to tell. The other set I'm not sure who did it, sort of a mino and kaga combo and lastly another set not totally sure about but have seen others like it described as kaga inlay. Of course comments appreciated.

" The Mantis Dude" aka Ken

Hi all,

Been a while and I haven't been on this site for way too long. Been trying to catchup and what do I see but a post about a school I obviously really hate (that's sarcasm just in case you weren't sure). Here is a bad pic of some tsuba that are kaga. Top row is iron and kaga goto example. I posted them before just so happens they are similar to 2 tsuba on the same page of the kaga taiken (i can't remember exact name of book/bible and I'm too lazy to get up and get it). I actually have a tsuba i wanted to post on this topic but that will have to wait for another time. If you have any other mantis kaga pieces just send them to me and do a good deed it will make you feel good. Thanks Luca for the pdf. All the best.

Ken aka "The Mantis Dude"

That guy Ford.... sounds familiar.  hmm.  can't google it or a car just shows up.  I'll figure out who he is, there are rumors of a guy that lives in an English cave and just plays with metals & potions all day, trying to revive true alchemy turning everything into gold.  A good guy to know if he ever figures it out. 

Thanks for the input everyone.  I was pretty sure I was right- I spent time searching but not my area of expertise.  You guys are awesome (always keep them buttered up in case you want to buy something from them one day).  Seriously I do appreciate the feedback. 

As for it being a cicada and not the king of all insects well the world can't be perfect now can it? .  I have passed up on some nice pieces, namely matching Kaga tsuba because there was no mantis. And while I do contemplate to branch out or not, I will for now continue my love affair of the Mantid.  If not I would need a new handle... can't be a Mantis dude without the Mantis I would just be dude then.  And there already is the dude out there.  I am reediting this as I might debate switching out a boring ojime for this one since I did succumb to a few tobacco pouches with of course mantis closures.  In fact, there are 2 on yahoo.jp right now I keep eyeing.  So many mantis so little time.

All the best and thanks again.

Ken aka THE MANTIS DUDE