Alex A

Randell, interesting, 

Can i ask you a couple of questions?

If you like the sword and you know roughly when it was made, does it really matter to you who may have made it?

Would you have bought the sword without papers ?

When you look around at other collectables, then look back towards Japanese sword collecting and papering then it strikes you as bit of an oddity 

I'm not aware of any other antique arms collecting where such a papering system is involved.

Example. .......Antique pistols can be an utter headache and your on your own. Yes there are forums and dealers may offer a certificate but they are to be taken with a pinch of salt. They don't add any value whatsoever, just some reassurance for some buyer not in the know.. 

There is so much uncertainty with Japanese swords, especially mumei.  I'm not big on relying on other folks opinions about what i own, as we all know its not factual.

So you end up with attribution, they think so and so made it..

I bet an awful lot out there is attributed wrongly, we have all heard of contradictions.

I find old mumei swords without papers, without attributions somewhat more interesting. 

The blades im interested in now don't need them, quite liberating. 

Japanese swords seems to be one hell of a unique hobby!!

Anways, gone off on one again, just thinking out loud

.

Aye, know those types. 

Hi Paz, when i mentioned swords that don't need papers i was thinking of the swords that are obvious what they are. Your signed and dated Sue Bizen, Signed Sue Mino etc

Then one could jump on to unsigned Sue Bizen etc, why bother paying someone to tell you what for the most of the time is clearly obvious or with a little effort, worked out.

Other stuff like Edo ubu mumei. Say you come across a sword thats obviously Hizen with Konuka hada etc, why pay someone to tell you what can be worked out. Other mumei like Shinto Ishido etc etc etc

As said earlier, some folks are happy enough with their own working out, seems like there's an obsession with getting things papered.

Sometimes its just a waste of money, other times not.

On occasion folks must hold one of their signed blades thinking wow, signed and made by the man himself, unaware that he had no hand in its making or signing.

You know what, sometimes when books/folks talk about mei you would think they were talking about mass produced machine stamped, like Sam Colt stamped on a pistol or something.

Even with those you see oddballs where someone did something assways, human nature, worn punch etc.

So when you add the human handcrafted/inscription into the equation then i guess that opens up many doors for discrepancies over a long period of time with much unknown thrown in for good measure.

Someone once said to me, you would need a time machine.

When everything about the sword matches that of the smith/school but the mei is SLIGHTLY off.

Don't know about you but that sets me off on a whole world of speculation as to why that may be the case.

Busy forge, Dai mei etc.

Must be a number of authentic swords noted as gimei. 

Many rational reasons why but guess they have to have boundaries.

Could live with such a sword, probably wouldn't be too bothered about sending it to shinsa. Though obviously price would have to reflect lack of papers, for potential re-sale.  Some folks rely on papers for every blade they own, for one reason or another.

Nothing wrong with an educated punt, good luck with that.

There are folks that are happy enough owning swords without papers, confident of their own knowledge enough so they don't need another opinion.

Think certainly there are swords that don't need papers

It is interesting to meet different folks with differing opinions regarding papers

To me it looks a good blade but appears it wont take any more polish

Hi i was referring the images above my comment, the little oval defect appeared to be a dint, to my eyes.

Bottom picture, left at first glance appears to be some difference, darkness, possibly core steel beginning to show.

On old swords, acceptable in moderation.

Can expect stuff like this on very old swords, part of the reason that got me more interested in Shinsakuto.

Shintetsu, core steel

Japanese SWORD FLAWS (japaneseswordindex.com)

Oh sorry, you mean the little marks, just look like a dint and a crack, not serious but depends how fussy you are.

All i will say is that i think i have seen more Tadayoshi gimei pass through here than any other smith name,

You see some on blades that are obviously Hizen but the mei looks real bad.

Others on blades that look more Sukesada.

People always say "buy the blade, not the papers", but there's a time when they are needed, from what I've seen.

Think it may have been an ishido sword.

Anyways, yes it happens.  

Possibly more on blades with more exaggerated curve when shortened, never really thought about it

Not a great example below, but get the idea. The one mentioned above cut a lot more of the mei off.

You know what, do remember one on Aoi a few years ago with most of the mei running off the side.

Thought it was a bit weird, but never really give it much thought since.

That's fantastic.

Could do with a pic 

Mei can appear cut off in various ways after shortening.

With what's available you have to assume its gimei. and price accordingly.

Good job, impressed,

To me, judging by the nakago it looks old, not Shinshinto.

Ana appear old and the varying surface to the nakago appears genuine. From what ive seen of most Shinshinto trying to be Koto, they never pull it off that good.

Cant really tell from those images but looks to be Mitsu Mune, so taking that in plus the hada etc id be looking to see if it fits a shortened Muromachi Shimada sword or any others.

Good luck with your research and possible purchase.

Ive always associated the use of foreign steel with rather bland looking hada, but maybe thats because ive never really looked that much into the smiths work that were involved with it.

Its like modern art, interpret that question how you want?

Aye, i get that. Was lately drawn to a Tadayoshi wak that was a notare/gunome

With such ideas you need to think of resale, i guess many wont steer away from the typical. It seemed cheap, perhaps that's the reason why.

Anyways, the sword above you would struggle to re-sell.

Hi Sam, used a tiny amount of Parker Hale Express gun oil since i started collecting, no issues.

Kind of acceptable on some old blades, in moderation, depends.

I dunno Stephen.

Its an horses for courses thing

My personal take on this is that there are better modern oils

For me, its akin to cooking with lard lol

Usually dark patches in photos like that indicate core steel