Jump to content

dwmc

Gold Tier
  • Posts

    548
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by dwmc

  1. 17 hours ago, vajo said:

    Mine has also a mismatched saya. 

     

    On 2/25/2023 at 4:17 PM, lonely panet said:

    a person i know wants to sell a nice example with a mistached saya in numbers.

     

    On 2/26/2023 at 8:48 AM, jeep44 said:

    Mine also came with a mismatched saya

     

    This all seems rather odd, Type 95 copper handles with mis-matched numbers. The two currently for sale on Ebay are also mismatched numbers. Just coincidence ?? 

    On 2/26/2023 at 6:27 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

    Mine came with a saya with no number!

  2. On 2/13/2023 at 5:21 AM, Bridges said:

    Thanks guys, I’m going to take the advice and wait it out.

     

    Agree, take John's advice. Restoration (Basically a nightmare) Locating proper fitting parts, chuso, fuchi, etc, is difficult, if not close to impossible in some cases. Below is an example I've been working on for close to a year, chuso, fuchi, menuki, wiring. Seppa still aren't correct... Dave M.20230213_110707.thumb.jpg.1aaf54c14bed41bac22dad9c0d898af0.jpg20201221_083258(3).thumb.jpg.a45157b10eaf86d211077e2cde7c25fe.jpg

    • Like 3
  3. On 2/7/2023 at 5:12 AM, dwmc said:

    Probably something I should have done in the first place, however I'll recontact the seller and inquire as to the reason for using an abbreviated airplane term in reference to a Gunto koshirae. Hopefully he will provide an explanation as to his logic, could be interesting. I'll post an update... 

     

    I received a reply from the seller in Japan. He indicated the sword was actually (Sensya-tai) wwll tank corp. I would like to have known if he got this information from a direct relative of the original (Sensya-tai) soldier. He didn't have or offer further information beyond what I suspect he had been told by the individual he purchased the sword from and didn't indicate if the person was or wasn't a relative with firsthand knowledge.

     

    I guess as with many of the wwll Shin-gunto swords there will always be an unknown element attached. We can either believe what little information may be available or reject it entirely. 

     

    Appreciate the interest and comments,

     

    Dave M.

    • Thanks 1
  4. 13 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

    So, sounds like whomever used the term was trying to call it a pilot sword without using the words "pilot sword", probably because they know from our multiple discussions on the topic, and a dedicated thread, that such an animal didn't exist.

    Probably something I should have done in the first place, however I'll recontact the seller and inquire as to the reason for using an abbreviated airplane term in reference to a Gunto koshirae. Hopefully he will provide an explanation as to his logic, could be interesting. I'll post an update... 

  5. 30 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

    So, sounds like whomever used the term was trying to call it a pilot sword without using the words "pilot sword", probably because they know from our multiple discussions on the topic, and a dedicated thread, that such an animal didn't exist.

    Quite possibly Bruce or maybe just to confuse guys like me. The odd thing about this term was both swords where listed in Japan and both had the buckle attachment. One of the desciptions actually referred to sword as crew gunto type. Apparently the term originated with Japan seller or sellers. Another odd one...  Dave M.

    • Thanks 1
  6. I recently shared a WWll Gunto in which I eventually came to the conclusion it was most likely a late war sword using sparse components available at the time and was used very little if at all in combat due to its exceptional condition.

     

    This however, is not the reason for this topic. I failed to mention in the previous thread my sword was listed as a long wakizashi 22" in (Zerosen koshirae.) My question is, what exactly is meant by Zero-sen koshirae ? I've noticed only a couple times in the past this type koshirae description used, and also like the sword I purchased had a buckle type fastener through the tusba, rather than the more traditional button snap.

     

    Is this a term (Zero-sen) used for possibly a crew sword, pilot sword???

     

    Any information appreciated.

     

    Dave M.20230104_113535.thumb.jpg.422821559cf2ab2b759a407b6901ba9c.jpg

     

     

     

     

  7. I thought I would share a final comment on what I believe this sword is based on the responses above.

     

    As mentioned, I purchased this sword from Japan, so it's definitely not a post war bring back job, although it could have been a post war Japanese creation as Dave R. suggested. True, buckles are not that unusual on leather field covers, however, cheap "tin toy" type buckles are not. When I dismantled the sword there was heavy (verdigris) on the leather fastening seppa, tsuba, and other metal seppa. You may also notice, compared to Dave's field cover examples, the material is different, and the quality is certainly lower. Also, I notice there are no metal eyelets and are tied together with string. The fittings are fairly decent, the tsuka ito is in almost "too good' of condition. The tsuka and saya cover are only moderately damaged and show no evidence as ever being in the field. The blade itself is in excellent condition outside of a couple of small rust areas.

     

    So what does this amount to...I'll be the first to admit, I have a weakness for Gunto which are a bit out of the ordinary even though not particularly significant in any meaningful way.

     

    After looking at the sword upon arrival, taking note of lack of snaps, metal eyelets, the heavy verdigris, string binding, possible pig skin, rusted rivet and buckle, yet fairly decent craftsmanship. It occurred to me this is classic last ditch/late war work?  My thinking is this is a very late war, (put together) sword which was assembled by what items were available at the time. I theorize the war ended, the sword was worn very little if at all, was not turned in at wars end, and was hidden away for the 70 + years until a few months ago...

     

    This of course can only be based only on a preponderance of what evidence is available, but at least to me seems to be a fairly reasonable possibility.

     

    Only being able to speculate on what (may) have occurred with many of these WWll era gunto is part of the frustration as well as fun with WWll sword collecting.

     

    Dave M.

     

     

     

     

    • Like 1
  8. 2 hours ago, Dave R said:

     I have seen buckles used before on original WWII leather field covers so no problem there.... But neither this nor the cover look right to me. The leather  looks of the wrong type and quality, the workmanship poor and the clincher is the lack of a sewn leather chape on the end of the saya cover. I think it's a post war jobby.

     

     

     

    s-l1600 (4).jpg

    010700 Gunto Brown Same Saya 013.JPG

    s-l1600 (2).jpg

    I agree with your observation Dave. Typical it isn't. I would go so far as to say it isn't cow leather. Possibly pig, or some other leather type of material.

    It is extremely supple, and yet has the appearance (in hand) as having considerable age, at least WWll era? There is however a sewn chape at the end of the saya fashioned out of the same type material. The sword is out of Japan, so it's definitely not a bring back "Bubba job."

     

    Very odd indeed!!!

     

    Dave M.

     

    20230121_162401.thumb.jpg.26a96ee5b1a4ee99529cc77aacce0827.jpg20230121_161424.thumb.jpg.6b11f0c374888d2b47c1478b31330500.jpg

    • Like 1
  9. I suspect it's original to the cover due to the fact as Bruce pointed out it is the same leather and definitely old. However, as John mentioned, it is a light weight buckle, of which you certainly wouldn't expect to find on a serious field combat cover.

     

    I guess it seemed like a good idea at the time to the leather craftsman, yet the photo of the leather attachment seppa was the end result of the great "buckle" experiment.

     

    Appreciate the comments and hope members enjoy seeing something a bit out of the ordinary.

     

    Dave M.

    20230104_115952.jpg

    • Like 1
  10. Thought I would share this example of a leather field cover which used a buckle rather than a snap. It was attached by a leather seppa with a belt like appendage which passed through the tsuba into the buckle. The leather seppa was still with the sword, yet the appendage has long been missing for obvious reasons.

     

    However, still a bit interesting. The sword appears to possibly be shinto era. Ubu, mumei,  decent polish, well balanced, rather elegant and a sword I'm sure would have been a first choice of a WWll soldier to carry into combat.

    20230104_113524.thumb.jpg.ca97de4287f3a8754da1a0c92abff46d.jpg20230104_114621.thumb.jpg.eb6b8e8633ea0d1e6fdb23f647ad40df.jpg20230104_113907.thumb.jpg.43f0cafe1e5f0bdf63d4d4b11cdcfd1f.jpg

     

    Dave M.

     

     

    • Like 2
    • Love 1
    • Thanks 1
  11. In summary of posted Sword.

     

    1. It's not a traditional Japanese made sword.

    2. It's most likely a "Peta Katana" produced in Japanese occupied Indonesia during WWll. (Dave R.)

    3. The term " Island Sword" is somewhat of a misnomer. Actual Japanese swords forged off main island are designated " Field or improvised." (As per Kiipu)

    4. I incorrectly mentioned the sword was "field" made in Indonesia whereas it was probably produced by local sword smiths and is not a Japanese sword. (Yet a facsimile in many ways) 

     

    After further research I noticed there's nothing new about these types of swords and has been discussed in the past (by myself also.) However, they do seem to show up on occasion and I guess could be legitimately considered part of WWll Pacific Theater history...

     

    Best regards,

     

    Dave M.

    • Like 1
  12. 1 hour ago, Dave R said:

     

     I would differentiate between PETA katana and the so called Island Swords. We know who made and carried the PETA blades, and they were an official embodied militia under Japanese command. Island swords, well who knows who made them, or if they were even meant to be anything other than souvenirs or the personal projects of bored servicemen!

     

    20 minutes ago, Kiipu said:

     

    Here in the United States, the expression "island swords" was never used so I will leave it to others to comment upon its meaning.  However, Japanese weapons made overseas are called "field (made)" or "improvised" weapons in the States.

     

    Got it, I think....Therefore, it should actually be called an "PETA katana" field made in Indonesia while under Japanese control.

     

    Thank you both,

     

    Dave M.

  13. 13 hours ago, Kiipu said:

    Dave, found a somewhat similar looking sword with a surrender tag.  Theses swords always seem just a little different than the next one.  Hope this helps.

    Leather covered sword

     

    Thanks Thomas,

    Yes, definitely similarities between the two swords. I think between you, Hamfish, Dave, Bruce, Chris, the consensus is most certainly another one of the Island made type swords.

    I'll let the owner know the most likely area and type of sword as he currently has it incorrectly listed as "Old Japanese."

    Thank you all,

    Dave M.

  14. 3 hours ago, Dave R said:

     

      It's well made, but the lack of a mekugi is the killer.... no Japanese artisan is going to miss that feature. Better made than most wartime fakes, and showing real age. I would go for PETA, aka Pembela Tanah Air (Defenders of the Homeland) who carried Shin-gunto lookalike swords. Which I confess is my default go-to for aged well made not-Japanese katana-alike swords. A strong local tradition of sword making and an intent to carry and use in combat..... unlike the other "fakes" seen around.

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenders_of_the_Homeland#:~:text=Pembela Tanah Air (abbreviated PETA,possible invasion by the Allies.

     

    Excellent Dave,

     

    I thought you would be the guy to sort this (somewhat) Japanese looking aberration out!  Well done, Indonisian, makes perfect sense...

     

    Thanks again,

     

    Dave M.

  15. 12 hours ago, vajo said:

    It would be nice to see better pictures of the blade Dave.

    The price is to high for saying buy it and take a look. :laughing:

     

    Chris,

    These are a few additional pictures you mentioned. (I'm even further perplexed by the sword after looking at it again). I thought I could see a very tight Kanuka type hada, but not conclusively. The shinogi appears to be more near the center of the blade, and there is absolutely no movement in the habaki or tsuba, which seems strange, almost as if it is bound strongly together in some way. 

     

    I tried to move the leather collar on the tsuka to see if there was a mekugi-ana beneath, the leather was extremely tight, and I didn't want to damage it further. All I can say is this is a very odd Japanese type sword which is beyond my ability understand. Possibly some sort of rebellion era sword, or possibly an old middle eastern attempt to imitate a Japanese sword. Lastly, maybe an Island sword as Bruce suspected..... Dave M.325273049_20221025_130058(2).thumb.jpg.324dc3c141441e81f41a5194f5f16ae0.jpg1851030869_20221025_130033(2).thumb.jpg.7d9ba1450be51212207b708703e741d1.jpg1304677594_20221025_130217(3).thumb.jpg.81d4ea1c72ff129b1dc3ae22f3beab98.jpg1067823508_20221025_130058(2).thumb.jpg.8d9a17b2968ffb3de1ce12f5c2734fc2.jpg2052395496_20221025_125732(2).thumb.jpg.e6754418c86999c29b64780d920b11fc.jpg

  16. 22 minutes ago, vajo said:

    It would be nice to see better pictures of the blade Dave.

    The price is to high for saying buy it and take a look. :laughing:

    Chris,

    I'll try and get better pictures of the blade, but as you know, even fairly good pictures of an out of polish blade don't turn out that well. However, at least we will see the overall blade shape (sugata).

    No, I wouldn't pay $695 for the sword, although, I might consider 3 or $400 just for the novelty of it in my collection.

     

    Dave R. 

    Do you have any idea of what you think this sword may be??

     

    Dave M.

    • Like 1
  17. I found this sword recently at an antique shop and took a few relatively poor photos, however, hopefully good enough to get a few opinions as to its origin.

    It appears to be a sword once covered in both saya and tsuka with leather, (tsuka leather removed.) There doesn't appear to be a mekugi- ana for tsuka removal. The habaki seems longer than normal. The Tsuba is rather plain with Mokko Gata shape. There are no seppa. The blade is severely out of polish with no visible hamon or hada and possibly a shobu zukuri sugata. The plate 66 (page 49) photo appears to be similar. (Fuller and Gregory 1868-1945) 20221024_165324.thumb.jpg.39fd9a59b8b079ba4e334f4104f2715e.jpg

     

    Is this a late war Japanese sword?  An island made sword.   Chinese fake???    Opinions much appreciated...Dave M.

    1590934388_20221024_132315(2).thumb.jpg.858d4cbf27755b663d4e9b14ad9a1574.jpg20221024_132401.thumb.jpg.2335d478e110d56d0c5e187fe4740180.jpg20221024_132412.thumb.jpg.ac22ef7f02b8131f3837ebab20b682e4.jpg173355720_20221024_132407(2).thumb.jpg.6859c6b71ece1c1dde131800e51c40c7.jpg

     

     

  18. There's probably not another gunto with more miscellaneous names as the Type 3 shingunto. Four or five years ago, I believe it was Shamsy (Steve) suggested, based on the year 1940, it should actually be designated Type 0.                                                                                                                                 Dave M.

    • Like 2
  19. 10 hours ago, Shamsy said:

    White or nickel? Is it possible to tell from the photo? I'm absolutely not doubting the existence of white saya (now faded to off cream) and the plausibly of this actually being used in a snow environment. But black and white photographs need to be carefully considered.

     

    Trystan's photo could very well be an example of a white saya. However, below is a photo of my father (on left) with one the swords he brought home. It shows, as Steve suggested, how deceptive the old black and white pictures can be, my father's sword was definitely not painted black, and his buddies not white.

     

    Dave M.

     

    20220102_094312.jpg

    • Like 1
×
×
  • Create New...