runagmc

Impressive as usual

I wonder if genuine mei are found right on top of the solder seam like that?

Seems like someone posted 2 silver ones by Natsuo sometime back... but I could be wrong...

Hi Edward, Here are the definitions I have...

Kinzogan mei (gold inlayed signature) was done at the time of Osuriage to replace a mei.

Kinpun mei is a gold lacquer attribution on a suriage sword.

Shinpun mei is a red lacquer attribution on a sword with ubu nakago.

As far as your tanto, we probably need better pics to say much... Also the measurements blade length, width, and thickness...

Who is this? I don't have info on him... signing 1862... he's not in any of my Osaka Gassan info... or is this just an alternate mei of someone?

I know Nobuhide did both, but for some reason I was thinking Yoshitane specialized in horimono. I'll have to go back and read about him again. Maybe the best horimono-shi ever... although Yanagimura sensei is right there as well, from what I've seen. Both amazing...

I don't know if I've seen a sword by Yoshitane...

Did Yoshitane make swords? I don't remember ever hearing that... maybe I forgot...

My understanding is also that nioi and nie are characterized by collectors by the visible size of the "particle". I'm sure the "frozen" crystal structures have endless variablity depending on many factors, as Micha has explained... but none of that is easily determinable by looking at a hamon with the naked eye (for most anyway). It's hard enough just to get to the point where you can be comfortable categorizing what you see by size of particles. Nioi and nie are simplified terms it seems... or, I also like clouds and stars... :D

I'm no help on mei, but I wish I owned the kogatana :D I wouldn't be surprised if the maker is known by the tosogu students...

I also wonder about the the shape of the sword. The mune looks like it has been polished way down or something (weird sori, barely any mune-machi left). The shitaji-togi (foundation polish) is pretty bad looking... meaning that the edges (shinogi-ji, etc,) look rolled over and not straight. Also the way the shinogi-ji goes into the nakago looks off.

These are just things you can examine yourself, and compare with higher level swords (or pics/oshigata) you see. It's hard to tell a whole lot about the sword from what I have seen, but I would not worry much about the signatures, and look at condition and quality. From the shape and lines, it was either not very well made or it has been altered from polishing... or whatever...

You do have a hamon that looks like displays some activities, if you learn to view it correctly (let the light from a light bulb reflect off the face of the sword, and move it around to see what you can see)...

Anyway... kazuuchimono- very possible... Muromachi jidai- almost surely ---pretty much just agreeing with what the others have told you already. Just FYI- some VERY good swords were made in the Muromachi period, but a lot of low quality ones were too...

All just my opinions that you can use to help form your own...

Got it... so the edge of the body would be the part you grab on these that Piers showed. Looks like you can see where the patina is rubbed away from people's fingers.

God... you gotta love traditional Japanese architecture and landscaping...

Also, are these hikite flat?... and how would they mount?

Iron/steel parts can be inlayed the same as the soft metals...

Soshu Masamune (the most famous smith of all time) is maybe the most common gimei found... so when you see this mei, it should always be considered gimei until verified by one of the sword societies...

On the page you linked, a part says it could be either Magoroku, or his younger brother... maybe they just think if it's not him, it has to at least be another Kanemoto who worked with him closely in the time frame of the early 1500s...

Maybe this could be the one listed as the son of Kanesada...

Sorry, not son of Kanesada. This should be the one... although, it sounds like there is some questions about him...

Maybe Mishina school... just a guess. Also seems like I've seen Ujifusa/Kanefusa swords with hamon along those lines... again, just a guess.

Chris, in your experience is it normally more noticable from the faces of the nakago, or do you see a over-lap kind of joint on the nakago mune? Anyone else, feel free to give input as well.

I imagine it can be hard to be 100% sure in a case that's been done with some care.

Hi Muriuszk, thanks for the compliment... unfortunately, I don't have any swords worth doing oshigata of at this point...

Yeah, I'll have to try and see what I can come up with...

Hi Nathan, I like to draw myself, but haven't attempted oshigata yet for some reason. You're doing very nice work...

Here's a couple of mine...

Can't ask for a much better summary than that...

There's not a right answer I think. Since none of the swords were made, or worn, together as daisho originally, personally, I would treat them as individuals, and go on quality/price...

It has to be your own decision, since you want to make a newly put together daisho, which 2 swords you would like to do it with...IMO

All other things equal (price, quality, etc.), the 2 by the same smith might have a better chance when reselling as a "new" daisho...

I disagree. What good does all the knowledge gained do if one isn't willing to pass it on to the next generation? That's what this forum is all about. In my experience, people who claim to have some "secret knowledge" are simply living off this myth, hiding their actual lack of knowledge behind it.

 

I also would caution against the impulse to take comments at face value because the poster is into swords / fittings for a long time. There are quite a few old-timers who were ahead of the crowd in the sixties and seventies- the one-eyed is king among the blind - but never advanced their knowledge, and are resting on their laurels ever since.

Hi Guido, I'm happy to hear you feel strongly about this, as you were one of those with more experience I had in mind when making the comment. Maybe you're right that the reason some of the seemingly most experienced members don't share is because they don't know as much as they lead others to believe... or maybe they just don't have the time... I don't know.

I look at someone like Chris Bowen (who I have never met, or had a one on one dialogue with... so I'm non-biased), who is constantly a part of meaningful discussion on the board, as a good example of someone who goes above what can be expected as far as sharing knowledge (there are certainly others as well).

There are other supposedly experienced students who never, or rarely, offer up their knowledge. Their reasons are their own, and while I wish they would participate however they can, I can't force, or expect them to, because I don't know why they choose not to. Then there are some who push others to go find the answer for themselves.

Anyway, I have learned from many more experienced on the board who have taught selflessly, without their ego constantly getting in their way, and to them I am thankful.

I also would look to Bizen Muromachi jidai... hard for me to say more, or if the signature is shoshin without research...

It's the name of a very famous smith, but if I remember there were other Nagamitsu in sue Bizen... Don't know off hand how many, or really anything about them...

yes, that's the pic... but sorry for derailing the thread... the swords seem to be very nice and in good condition overall, so...