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So back in November 2024 I made a thread about the first mid-high quality piece in my collection, a gimei "Shozui" piece. Whilst it is no longer the best piece in my entire collection I still use it as my profile picture on the forum to this day and the eye still fascinates me. Here's a link to the old thread for anyone curious: Recently as I was playing around with AI, I decided to use Gemini to see what it could tell me about the likely tradition of the piece or about the technique used for the eye and it pointed me in an interesting direction so I thought I'd make a thread about it. I uploaded some images and had an extensive back and forth with the AI: Eye Closeup: What the AI suggested is that the piece is likely either late Edo Hamano or Iwama school lineage with a gimei signature. Glass eye, mother of pearl, etc as many on this forum already know was a practice that mainly became popularised in the Bakumatsu Period. Based on the sort of "milky" opacity of the eye and the lack of colourful iridiscence reminiscent of crushed shell, the AI determined that the eye dome on this piece was most likely made from crushed stag horn using a technique known as Gyokugan. Gyokugan is a technique that originated from Buddhist statue carving however in the Bakumatsu Period, it (as well as other interesting techniques like Mother of Pearl or using bone, ivory inspired by netsuke craftsmen, etc.) was used experimentally by masters such as Hamano Noriyuki III, Unno Shomin or Iwama Nobuyuki who sought to make their work feel more "realistic" or "alive". The AI also provided some interesting information about the intricacies of using this technique (Gyokugan specifically...) on a small tosogu such as a kashira which appears to have been a very difficult process requiring precision. Here is a simplified outline, as I understood it: 1) The piece would need a carefully carved slot with a slightly raised rim in which the dome would be inserted. 2) Next, a properly fitted dome made of crushed stag horn would need to be shaped and slotted. 3) Taka-zogan would be shaped around the eye to give it its artistic appearance. 4) The artisan would also have to hit the metal around the dome tightly into place (seen in the brow here) to ensure that the piece retains its cohesiveness over time, as the stag horn material expands or contracts depending on hydration over the decades or centuries. * For this reason, Tosogu pieces that retain their domes (and are not later Meiji productions that use adhesives) are quite rare. 5) Finally, an incredibly small hole would be cut into the dome and a tiny shakudo peg inserted, or alternatively black lacquer would be used to form the pupil in the dome. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ All of this interesting information about Bakumatsu Period experimental pieces aside, I figured this thread would be a space to share examples of tosogu pieces featuring mother of pearl, inlaid stones, bone, ivory etc. Most of all whilst I have found some limited information about this technique, most of what I can find relates to Buddhist statue carving. If anybody is able to locate information or examples of the Gyokugan technique used in other tosogu pieces, I would be very grateful! (Dale Sensei, I am hoping you can throw me another bone!) Post some crazy Bakamatsu experimental works! DISCLAIMER EDIT: Do also keep in mind that I am not 100% sure the eye is made using this technique. I am simply going off what the AI suggested... I just ran these images through ChatGPT which suggested Inlaid translucent stones like agate or chalcedony!! (This may however be ignoring the historical intricacies of Hamano style carving or Bakamatsu Period experimentation and going solely off the 100's of years dried out horn texture which looks rough like stone, so I think the Gemini assessment makes more sense. It's also a lot harder to hit soft-metal around precious stones without causing damage or breaking something!).

Bizarre: https://www.ebay.com/itm/157830755961

The inlay does appear to be in glass, and I coincidentally received this piece below just a few hours ago. Best regards, Ray

There are two types, one is solid metal, the other is 2 thin plates. Usually the 2 plate types are shakudo or some precious metal. I think this is done to reduce material cost. The 2 plate type are generally Edo period installs, the solid type could be either pre-Edo or Edo. Normally the 2 plate type are glued in with a pitch filler in between the plates, which is frequently dried out. The solid type are frequently lead or copper and are held in with a force fit. Removal - As mentioned, a short wood dowel the right diameter is used as a punch. I have a block of wood with a biggish hole in it to support the tsuba, and the plug will drop through the hole. For the 2 plate type, usually these are so thin that denting them cannot be avoided. On technique to mitigate is to place the punch near the edge of the plug rather than the center and work around the circumference or go side to side and go slow. Another method is to use a thin piece of leather between the punch and the plug, until you get it moving. Usually solid lead plugs are so soft they are going to dent, but it is possible to retexture them if you decide to put then back in.

I use Dawson's book more, however, his doesn't have dirks. So, I go to Fuller for them.

both replaced by Dawson, and this is coming from someone that has owned pieces published in all three

Bruce as You have wondered in fittings thread about snap variations I got this in Fuller’s Green book. I don’t know if this was repeated in Fuller’s and Gregory „white” one. Posting here as it is right within leather covers topic. And looks like haikan is covered with leather so great point to spot fake.

There are actually surprisingly many swords that are by Masamune or attributed to Masamune. So far I have 113 blades in my list. There are also several blades that have been historically seen as Masamune but modern organizations have reattributed them, those are excluded from that number. As I saw my own post there about 3,5 years ago, it seems I have found 10 Masamune from my references during that time.

Hello, It contains a poem by Ono-no-Komachi, a 9th-century poet. It starts in the center, then moves to the left, and continues to the right. 心から　　　うきたる舟に　乗りそめて　ひと日も波に　　濡ぬ日ぞなき kokorokara ukitarufuneni norisomete hitohimonamini nurenuhizonaki meaning 「I willingly chose to board this painful boat, and not a single day passes without being drenched in tears (waves).」 （It expresses her lament over the suffering caused by a love she herself began.） Hiro

Hello, It looks like “Rinsai” (林斎) to me. This is a brand logo of a company that used to be in Saga Prefecture (the company has since closed). 三洋陶器株式会社「龍峰窯」 San yō Ceramics Co., Ltd.’s ‘Ryūhō Kiln’. I’m not sure if it has any connection to Okinawa. It seems they produced a variety of items. I tried to find pieces with a similar texture from among them. a teapot a platter I hope someone more knowledgeable will show up.

The Expert is Ito Mitsuru of You You Gallery. His daughter Rei handles most dealings w folks from overseas. They are both supposed to be in Chicago next week.

The tsuba looks great, I really like the yakite surface. Does it have papers attributing it to the Hirata school? The tagane-mei are somewhat unclear, but since the piece has been mounted several times, that would explain the irregularities. However, an attribution cannot be made based on this feature alone, as Itô Mitsuru states in his book. Odawara Fukurin looks good. The first master is generally believed to have lived from 1590 to 1635 (according to most studies), which explains why only a very small number of pieces attributed to the first generation exist. Most of the known pieces (to my knowledge, around 40) are well documented. First-generation work tends to be darker, less polished, and very refined in design and execution, while the second generation is often a bit simpler. Also to consider: It always raises questions when a typical piece doesn’t get clear papers and ends up being sold abroad. Still, depending on the price, it might be worth the risk and based on the photos alone, I’d probably have gone for it too.

You are likely correct Mauro - I have two others like a display table.

Hi Dale, nice tsuba, but I don't think it depictsa bell. Here another tsuba depicting 高台 - takadai, a kind of raised holder.

Check out 武蔵太郎安国 Musashi Taro Yasukuni (Mito) who also signed 左正安国

Another less-common yatate. This one stands out because it is made of wood (boxwood, I think, because of the tight grain) and is signed (Hirokazu). Signed pieces are not common with more "pedestrian" yatate like this one. And while wood was used, they too are less common later into the edo period. Brass and copper were just easier to use. I could not find a record of this artist on any of my lists, however the Greek Key carving is very intricate and well done. The ink bowl is copper and the hinge is some metal. The ojime is also cast metal (non-ferrous). Please excuse the white powder in the carving that someone used to highlight for sale. I haven't brushed it out yet. John C.

Here’s a late war maroon ito wrapped handle with unserialized blade. Just sharing because you don’t see these everyday. A bit pricey for my blood. -Sam https://ebay.us/m/IOG2fJ

Items provided from the Samurai Museum Berlin collection. Definitely worth making the trip if you can.

I am having less and less confidence in eirakudo photos. Now for some reason the photos from the top which used to be very realistic show too much hadori (wrong light angle!), those taken at an angle were always pulled so hard it looks a bit more involved than in hand. This is ayasugi hada, as expected, why its so contrasty - its probably the image itself. The blade is indeed early, with curvature going into nakago. Were it signed this would have been an important piece.

For some artisans from the Hirata, Hayashi, and Kamiyoshi schools of Higo tsuba, the punch marks are a defacto signature.

I think I paid too much? Shoami Yoshihisa 32,000 yen.

Hi Jake, in my opinion, it is unlikely to be stag-horn which is a bone material, consisting mainly of calcium phosphate. If it is not some polished quartz, it is probably glass as Ray says. An expert may be able to polish it so PINOCCHIO would have clear view again!

In summer 1977, there was a high-quality sword show in KOBE. With a preparation time of ten (= ten) years, they had gathered swords from private collections, and there were three MASAMUNE blades which had never been shown in public. I could imagine that there might be a few more hidden from view.

I think less than 40 blades have been authenticated as Masamune’s work. As recently as last year I saw two authentic Masamune blades up for sale Aoijapan.com in Japan. One was a long sword in a shirasaya that was selling for the equivalent of $600,000 USD, the other was a tanto with shriasaya and koshirae for around $80,000 USD. I’m a collector myself, and have several pieces that could fetch price close to the tanto, but I’m not crazy enough to drop that kind of coin on a blade.

Hi Kim! I found Nick Komiya's write-up on Suya Shoten where he posted this photo at the beginning - The Untold Story of Suya Shoten; Warrelics. I don't know why he chose this particular stamp, and I wish he had gone into the other variations. I have a few in my files, and after reviewing, I think you are right that they changed their stamping over time. Of course, it could be as you suggest that there were seperate shops for different products, as they made quite a few things. Here is what I have that seems to suggest a time progression: On an old kyugunto On a kyugunto made for the Chinese As seen on most gunto On an RS (Type 3/100/etc) tsuba

This is a new one for me—a Nantenbo Kannon painting. It’s a common subject matter of the Bodhisattva of compassion who hears and sees all suffering. Just the first time I’ve seen Nantenbo tackle this subject from among thousands of this prolific Zen master’s works that I have studied. Translation is a bit uncertain to me. Kannon was the patron Bodhisattva of fishermen who founded many seaside temples dedicated to her (actually originated as a male figure). This is a touching and unusually personal portrayal of Kannon, sitting in a kind of watery setting with branches around her, gazing down and to the side. She is usually sitting on a giant lotus pedestal, rather regal and all powerful as she emanates compassion like a superpower. This is a quiet scene. I wonder if it is reflected in the calligraphy. I do know that the kanji for Kanzeon bosatsu is 觀世音菩薩. Thanks in advance for your help.

Hey all, Just picked up this nice Hirata school tsuba. Any thoughts to which generation? 7.62 x 7.14cm.

On that one I don't think so. Of the 40 or so yatate I have, only 10 or 15 have the slot for the kami-kiri. And of those, only 3 came with it - all in very rough shape. Pictured is one of my other ones that came with the kami-kiri. Note the finger slot that helps push it out. John C.

Excellent, thanks Marcin! Even has several variations of the jiri patterns.

I'd say 清次 (Kiyotsugu), December 1943. I could be wrong about the smith, often am. You paid a normal price for WWII Type 98 gunto. Looks like you're missing a seppa or two, so that's why it's loose. You can find them online now and then. I had to buy a clump of 6 or 8 to get a couple the right size for mine. The red paint is "37" matching your fittings.

No paper, bought it on its attributes. Shodai doesn’t always have a uniform tagane-mei. I’ve seen many pieces similar to this, but that’s not as important. It’s definitely much darker than its photos with a very reflective surface, probably from the urushi. Was in a US collection for a long time, I believe. I’ve been looking for one for some time, so got lucky. I was thinking second generation when I first saw it. Who knows.

Hello all! Here is an interesting tsuba that I saw. I have not seen anything like this previously. A “bell” shaped tsuba with a “hole” at the top of the bell and a “mask” at the bottom right. Was it used as a necklace after it was no longer used on a blade? It looks quite old and appears to have been mounted. It also appears to be a cast tsuba (or cast and hand worked?). Only the omote has a design and the ura is “hollow” with no design. A “strange” looking tsuba. Raises questions like “who would use it”, “was it fitted just for display only (or intended for use)”, “how old is it”, “why only a motif on one side”, “is it a Namban type”, “are there any others out there”, and other questions. Just an interesting piece (to me). Thought I would post it for opinions and thoughts. With respect, Dan

Thanks Alex and Dan

Hangers. We had recently example of chain on gunto similar but longer to first example. Someone was claiming that chain is from pocket watch or something like that. Fuller’s green book.

wow thanks so much, i'll put some quality pitures here once it back from the workshop

Not sure about the last kanji. The other two seems to be “東清..“.

Matt and I have conversed on this piece, too. Beautiful work. I lean towards Nidai work, but I may very well be wrong, and it could be Shodai Hikozo. That plate is just killer. I'd love to see it in person some day. Congrats again, Matt, on acquiring this tsuba.

@xiaopangshizi i found the story of your tsuba. It's from nihon shoki poem "Agatamori battling mizuchi in the pool" Here a passage of wikipedia "The ancient chronicle Nihongi contains references to mizuchi. Under the 67th year of the reign of Emperor Nintoku (conventionally dated 379 AD), it is mentioned that in central Kibi Province, at a fork on Kawashima River (川嶋河, old name of Takahashi River in Okayama Prefecture), a great water serpent or dragon (大虬) dwelt and would breathe or spew out its venom, poisoning and killing many passersby. This mizuchi was exterminated by a man named Agatamori (県守), ancestor of the Kasa-no-omi (笠臣) clan. He approached the pool of the river, cast three calabashes which floated to the surface of the water and challenged the beast to make these gourds sink, threatening to slay it should it fail. The beast transformed into a deer and tried unsuccessfully to sink them, whereby the man slew the monster. The record goes on to say: "...He further sought out the water-dragon's fellows. Now the tribe of all the water-dragons filled a cave in the bottom of the pool. He slew them every one and the water of the river became changed to blood. Therefore that water was called the pool of Agatamori"." Could you make 2 good pictures of the tsuba front and back for my archive? I like that motif and story very much.

$20 for the Shibata Mitsuo

Just musing here...I've often wondered what percentage of a restoration/preservation project is acceptable before it becomes just a brand new item. I have no problem fixing parts or adding some repro parts to make something presentable, however I often see projects on cars or particularly vintage airplanes where almost every part is reproduced or repaired in some way. To me, this is just a new item using parts of an original item as a template. Not sure I have answered that question for myself. Just depends on the individual project, I guess, or possibly it's historical significance. John C.

thx,that's another tree on the back😓

I tried to make photos of the ICHIMAI BOSHI but I could not capture it properly. Instead, I drew a 'fictious' line of how the HAMON goes.

While cleaning some blades, I thought I’d take a few quick photos and share this one, as I'm very fond of it. It’s a Rai Kunitoshi utsushi by Shodai Tadayoshi.. extremely fine ji-nie (konuka)..and in some places, clear hada reminiscent of Rai, with pure white nie along the ha..enjoy!

It’s not about swords, but… Nishiōeda’s handwriting is really clean and easy to read.（I think I’m getting tired of unreadable handwriting lol） He is said to have served as a clerical staff member [contract employee] at the Forestry Economics Research Institute in 1952. He died in 1958.

A few more pictures

Some more 'bells' without rims from the V&A - a curiously information lacking museum. And the earlier post - is there a hidden face on the lower right of the bell? Or do I have an over active imagination?

A friend showed me one of these bells in a circle Tsuba and pointed out the number of knobbles on the outside of the bell, with a photo copy of its provenance. The price was around US $10,000+ as I recall.

Maybe a sounding bell , having just been struck.

Temple bell are fairly common, one on auction now https://www.jauce.com/auction/k1019346842 no hole at the top and ura is just a plainer design of the omote. https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/iron-tsuba-in-bell-form-depicting-kiyohime-wrappi-293-c-e068d26af7 No details of the ura but it does have a hole at the top. https://br.pinterest.com/pin/650910952377735943/ also no ura view but it appears wan-gata [cupped shape ] http://jameelcentre.ashmolean.org/collection/7/10237/10401 Numerous rimmed designs as well. one here with bell and mask https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/14758/lot/205/ The guard itself is not bell shaped obviously.