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Ref. Vaiśravaṇa - Wikipedia

I have to apologize for being straightforward, but I will mention right away that I also would appreciate having a sword with horimono like this and looking at it from time to time. But this is a very recent style, 20th century, possibly early Showa. The elements are flat rather than 3D to the point that most elements are just accented as contours, you don't see actually scales of the dragon etc.. Ambitious but the execution is fast.

The paperwork describes the surface of yours as Tsuchimé-ji, so would that not indicate that it is the original treatment? This one may be later (?) but offered just for comparison. And the reverse

A boar's eye habaki worth posting. On a sword for sale by @matthewbrice, posted HERE. It's larger that most I've seen, and I like the coloration design:

It can be post-suriage. Unusual placing, unusual choice of yasurime type, not exactly clear why above it seems to become more typical for post-suriage yoko yasuri (or is it?), but theoretically it can be. I don't take this as the most likely scenario. But it would be interesting however if other people (not you, Jacques) would start voicing opinions instead of myself being the sole kantei expert around here. I would gladly learn something.

Colin san, not offended in the slightest, just to let you know. A good and interesting purchase IMHO. BaZZa.

Left to right - her picture, how it looks in real life, how it looks after two days of dancing around with light sources and trying to understand why I can't capture the leftmost image. And hand pushing contrast to maximum. NTHK [NPO?] circa 2023: Kaga late Muromachi, no noticable activity, suguha, itame. NBTHK: utsuri, ashi, attributed to Enju Myself: why Enju, hamon is pure nioi with a little bit of ko nie, if you believe leftmost image (I believe its there, just does not show very well), or even my rightmost one (two days of pain), it even borders on ko choji in places. Aoe. Kantei guy after 10 minutes: Obviously its Aoe. Yes, ashi, complex utsuri. Did NBTHK consider ko nie activity like the one seen in third photo as an indication its Enju? I don't know. I had an opportunity to ask couple of questions through an intermediary but that's it.

I have a brass-inlaid Heianjo tsuba with very similar shaped hitsu.

You are resorting to personal attacks again and at the same time calling for decency What do you mean - if it's you, is it okay? I have nothing personal against you, but don't do what you criticize to others And I also have to say that I completely disagree with your statement, why did most of the educated people leave this forum and those who stayed here watch in silence where it's all going This topic is a typical example of that

@Alex A So Alex I am also not one of your children so shouting at me, saying The END and go to your corner is not really going to work. What we should do is look at the nonsense you're sharing: "I said that because like a few others, think it deserves a bit more scrutiny than what we can give it here. And something you don't know, i presume. I know how much Eric paid for this sword, very little in fact and "IF" a polisher says its worth restoring and "IF" he can get it done for a reasonable price then i actually feel he could make a profit when its time to sell. Though many "IFS"!!!. At the price he paid most here would have bought it. Sure if he did NOTHING he could make a profit." @Eric187 Let me be clear that no matter what you paid for this sword it was a waste of every penny. If you value money and every minute it takes to make it then no matter what the price was, realise it was flushed down a drain and observe that feeling and ask yourself, knowing that it is not really a sword anymore would you really subject another collector, friend or enthusiast with this same feeling and tragedy? It's like conning someone. Alex is actively encouraging you to do just that and not just that he wants you to spend money in the sword to get to that point first. - "Nakago could be re-patinated, Shirasaya repaired/cleaned up" - "polisher says its worth restoring" Let us look at polishing, this will cost money, re-patination of the Nakago will cost money, Shirasaya will cost money, shipping, etc. So let us also look at the next statement: "Folks are always interested in horimono, even if not executed to an high standard. For many they add interest though its not for everyone." Yeah no, no, no, lol, no. Just a select few people maybe. @Eric187 let me tell you what your budget polisher will do, they will polish your sword and then: In these areas when polished the kizu will open up further Here the kizu will open but we can also see that the edge is damaged and will also need to be polished down to restore alignment Here we can see the edge is again in need of re-alignment. The orange is a line of masame hada that has opened up and will open further in polishing. Now the Ryu, the Ryu is in the Ji and when polished this will wear down the Horimono and damage it, I do not see why that would make it more acceptable? The position of the Horimono means it will meet with stone and there is no avoiding that. Edge alignment again As soon as this areas are polished they will open up pitting and it is in the Hamon There is pitting in the Hamon here This is a lot of work for a profit from an unsuspecting new owner. "This is nonsense, you are comparing this sword with Juyo swords" Well yes, I am using Juyo Oshigata as a benchmark why would I use a crappy example? I use Juyo Oshigata for most comparisons (personal though).

Hello: I'm tracking the serial numbers and inspection marks on type 25s and I have exhausted my available resources (Internet, Dawson, and F&G). So far, I have come across a total of only 27 different swords! I would appreciate help in finding more. If anyone has a type 25 not listed below, please attach a pic of the serial number and the inspection stamps. I would really appreciate it. List of known serial numbers: 325, 575, 1539, 1996, 2379, 3397, 3587, 4077, 5578, 5988, 6251, 6784, 8170, 8572, 10781, 11448, 13121, 13197, 14013, 14323, 14408, 15383, 15773, 16019, 16065, 16416, Unk serial number sold on Worthpoint. Brief history of the type 25 from Nick Komiya: https://www.warrelic...avalry-gunto-781783/ Thank you very much for taking a look, John C.

G'day Mark, Thanks for posting. To help you here is a comparison shot of your dragon with a more detailed example by Gassan Sadakatsu dated 1920. Cheers, Bryce

Dear Jacques, Just to be clear: I didn't downvoted you. On the other hand there was no useful information from your side over the past few weeks. Only mocking people. Quit pro quo.

There you go. Spoiled for choice. I'd heard Honami Nisshu gave dubious attributions and those confirm it. Unless the sayagaki are forged on these examples. Whoever chiseled the Mei wasn't even trying.

Pick and choose! https://www.jauce.com/auction/e1197663550 https://www.jauce.com/auction/m1199119553 https://www.jauce.com/auction/g1199664414

Hi John, In my head I had the Tosho as being Edo period and Ko Tosho as anything before, but Shibui swords, Robert Haynes/ Elliott Long's website has the boundary before the end of the Muromachi period (if I'm reading the table correctly) so probably more in line with Sasano, though it suggests that the dates should be "taken very liberally". https://shibuiswords.com/tsubaera.htm

Florian could be on to something here. There is a similar tsuba in the Metropolitan Museum https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/32182 With fat heart shaped "fans"? This from another tsuba found on-line - not sure if it is a fan or some sort of commemoration plaque? Then there is this where the whole tsuba is that shape. https://www.mokumeganeya.com/e/mokumeganetour/2019/08/28/find-mokume-gane-chapter-20/

You can check out any time you like but...

I own a modest Tsuba with Tanabata festival motif. It depicts several papers with inscriptions hung in bamboo trees. Note the shape of the one upper right (upper left on the ura). I wonder if such paper (used for what? Uchiwa fans?) is the origin of the sukashi in question.

Seki ju Kawamura Kanechika saku

Unfortunately can't see jigane. Evening, light from a side can fix that. I like what I see though, probably Soshu imitation. Regarding the signature I would deal with it after studying the work itself.

No idea of age. The zōgan looks fairly crudely done but it’s a nice object regardless! PS There is a whole thread on Mekugi-nuki around here somewhere…

Yes, made to revive an earlier style…late Edo? The partial too uniform rivet heads inside make me doubt. Try the mixture, it’s a good idea!

It’s not suriage - might be a fraction machi okuri but that might be my eyes? Nothing to worry about though IMHO.

25% off all Japanese swords and tosogu through Sunday. (with payment made by Paypal, Zelle, Venmo, Wise, bank transfer before midnight Sunday, September 14th). http://stcroixblades.com --Matthew Brice St. Croix Blades

Here is the favourite bird-themed tosogu from my collection: a tsuba by Watanaba Issei. It depicts the southward migration of geese in the autumn months and their return to Japan in the eighth lunar month known as “Kanaraigetsu”. As the geese migrate south from their summer visit to Siberia they inspire thoughts of the coming winter, but also give a strong feeling towards the Japanese spirit. I fully appreciate how especially during times of change and uncertainly that this yearly event brings a sense of unity and national pride. The importance of geese in Japanese art was further secured by stories of several military heroes who had achieved victory in battle when a sudden breaking of ranks by flying geese signaled an ambush. This protective role of the birds led to their frequent use in decorating tosogu. I particularly like the detailed carving of the geese on the omote and the snow on the reeds; you can see them buckle under the weight. On the ura the imprints of the geese's feet in the snow are very charming, as well as the sekigane which is made to look like snowfall, a lovely touch.

My "kyudo" corner with Otagaki Rengetsu and Kaga no Chiyo works. My wife is very good at keeping all of my "hobbies" tidy.

Etsuzan Doshu (1629-1709). Born in China as Yueshan Daozong. He came to Japan in 1657 to study with Mokuan. In 1705, six years after he produced this calligraphy, he became the seventh abbot of Manpukuji temple of the Chinese Obaku sect of Zen buddhism near Kyoto. Regarded as one of the finest of the Obaku calligraphers and respected as Sho no Etsuzan (Etsuzan of calligraphy). He frequently started his poems with a dramatic large kanji character. Personal collection. Provenance, Zen Art Gallery (Belinda Sweet). Poem translation: "Small pebbles can build a great wall; purchase this kind of gold all life long!"

Very likely Ko-shoami [Ko just means "early"] the texture of your piece would certainly give the impression of an early or old piece. I just found this one as well https://japanesesword.com/archived-pages/2017/9/22/shoami-tsuba Just described as Shoami - but it looks ancient to me! It is very close to yours in size. Hey they never made just one!

Alex, you're out of line. Brano has this figured out more than you do. And whoever suggested there is a financial interest here, you couldn't be more wrong. Not a cent. I watch silly people speculating who someone is, when all they have to do is ask around their own collector community, as he is a well known collector in the UK. Just ask the Token Society. What exactly do you think is being hidden? People simply can't accept that collecting means striving for the best, even if you can't achieve it. Pretty disgusted with the actions of most in this thread, including both sides. Some of you like to collect in a little bubble where everyone agrees with you. This will NOT happen here again. I'll rather lose members than allow stuff like this to bring the forum down and cause me stress. Final warning to everyone here. Both sides of this.

Please don't go Rayhan, the board needs more people who are prepared to tell it how it is . Bon Dale was the leading light of the Token Society of GB in the early days, he tried to educate the masses and was pretty scathing when it came to bad swords . He would be rolling in his grave if he read this discussion . Ian Brooks

I am sorry the discussion got out of hand. At least Eric got a taste of what being a collector is like. Run while you can. After the first blade most still can get out. The third one gets you.

The gold tier seems to be working, I would be ok to see multiple donation tiers. Like the gold tier, but add platinum and diamond, perhaps 2x and 3x? This forum is for a community that collects expensive things, some high-end collectors lurk, many (some) would be ok to donate more. Tier badges would be a constant reminder and encouragement to donate, even without a quid-pro-quo, and hopefully with less need for periodic pleas. Might be not too difficult administratively (actually, I know nothing about managing a forum like this one, but I'm sure it's more work than most of us realize).

I've reached out to Eric and at some point, he and I will be meeting. I'll give it a good long hard look when I see it in person. Photographs just don't typically do nihonto justice. I think people just need to calm down a bit. Passions have run a bit hot and it has come to personal attacks, which is unbecoming of such a distinguished collection of people. Let's all agree to drop the attitudes and just stick to well-educated opinions predicated on observable facts, yeah? We're here for the swords, let's keep it that way!

Eric came here asking for thoughts on this sword. A number of experienced members chimed in with opinions and observations. And while some were delicately stated, and some not, I found myself learning from the things I had missed and overlooked none the less. Eric asked for thoughts, and to his credit, welcomed all of them. This is the way.

Many thanks for your imput and assistance, I appreciate any help, this has been a conundrum for too long

Hello to everyone, The reason I suscribed is because I felt gratefull for help and assistance. Maybe: - provide priority assistance to members, - possibility to hire a private thread showroom to finish a transacrtion betwen members, - international net of people helping with homeland issues and mediations in transactions, - some continental IRL NMB meetings, - begining an online Kanteï school. - good sample for the 300 most sognificant smith meï... A lot of fun for young and old timers...

I don't think Rayhan is saying anything that he couldn't reasonably explain where he stands for with good explanations. I wouldn't personally invest money on this sword. In my opinion the vast majority of Japanese swords can be polished, however it is another thing if it is economically reasonable at all to get them polished. Unfortunately I don't know the correct terminology for such horimono placement if there is a specific term. I do think I have seen it done few times, as if there is bo-hi present there is really no other space for carving. Unfortunately I have too many references and I cannot easily find them as I don't remember them well. Here is one historically important naginata-naoshi attributed as work of Yoshioka Ichimonji Sukemitsu, it is signed and dated. However I cannot personally stand the horimono... https://web.archive.org/web/20220112040404/https:/www.aoijapan.com/wakizashi-ichi-bishu-yoshioka-jyu-saecut-after-that/ I was actually thinking/dreaming about buying this one when it was 1,500,000 yen. It has passed through 4 dealers and was 3,500,000 yen at highest asking price I've seen, and latest one was the 2,200,000 yen it was listed at Aoi. It is historically super important item but for my personal collection I would rather have unimportant item that I personally love. Here is a Jūyō sword that I personally dislike because of the carving. It is a signed tachi by Bizen Nagamitsu and most likely a good sword but I cannot get myself to like the sword. https://web.archive.org/web/20230203101526/https://www.samurai-nippon.net/SHOP/V-1979.html This one has also passed through at least 4 different dealers with fluctuation in price, latest one being 11,000,000 yen.

I think it is totally understandable that there are several different forums and closed groups floating around various places. In my ideal world there would be just 1 huge meeting place where everyone would get together and share info freely. Of course real life doesn't work like that... People are people and not everyone will get along, and there are probably studies on why certain groups will form etc. Just checked that my membership here at NMB is closing in 18 years, and to be honest this is one of my favorite places online and has been for a long time. I hope to be a member in here as long as the forum is up. I have met so many amazing people through this forum online and some I have even met in person in various places. I admit that I am too grown into the forum that I feel quite puzzled how people are not joining in for gold membership at such cheap overall price. For me it is about the community in here, maybe the difficult thing is getting the new folks feeling welcome in the community.

Dee, give it a break.

Its paypal linked to a credit card, no issues Dee, you need thicker Skin, you get wound up too easily. It has been talked about before, but maybe there could be a an area for top notch sword talk? Only say that because we see a lot of low to mid end blades come through the forum and it seems to set some folks off. Though to be honest, if i were Brian, i couldn't be assed trying to separate it.

Maybe call it $5.30 to cover those Papal fees, lets face it, that's peanuts for what's available here, Really am surprised more people don't support the forum, it costs nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Phew, a lot to unpack here, so I'll do it in several bursts as I get time. Ok....so let's start There is always the Paypal option to contribute at any time. That link is above in the DONATIONS section, and you can do it via Paypal, direct credit card (best to pm me so I can send a payment request as the processor link isn't always reliable) or even WISE now. So Gold is useful, but we do get contributions that way by a handful when they sell something else, and it comes in very handy for bills. I'll set up a monthly Gold membership for anyone who wants to do that. It is via Paypal subscription, so would likely be $5 a month, and would automatically renew monthly until someone cancels their subscription with Paypal. Thanks for the advice. Not sure what the takeup would be, or how much the fees would eat it up, but let's see. I do lose about 6% for every donation to Paypal fees. Have banned many Gold members. Contributing doesn't buy you any favours. I work on the basis that if you find the forum useful and want to contribute, go for it. But don't expect leeway if you act out. Being useful in the NMB community or having serious knowledge or having good contacts in Japan may sometimes get you some little leeway. But few know what happens behind the scenes and who gets warnings, bans etc. Most of you have no idea what happens behind the scenes. But no...contributions don't buy leeway. Never have. For me, FB is instant gratification, drowned out by a flood of incorrect info. If it wasn't for people like @Ray Singer etc giving translations and advice, it would die fast. And it is terrible at looking things up. The info posted today is gone tomorrow and searching for it is next to impossible. You can get instant answers, but if you want to research something, you come here and search 19 years of info from people who are quickly corrected if they give wrong info. I never feel like FB is a threat. The type of people that post there are not usually the ones that study much, just want to be spoon fed. It has its place. But I don't support a platform that will ban you if you post a sword for sale on Marketplace because you are some danger to society, and which hates edged weapons collectors. Translations will always be free, just maybe we need some limits or control. But it's the main advantage here. My main regret is that we don't get in enough to compensate those that freely give of their time assisting with that. I would LOVE to reward them in some way and it's always a plan. I won't mention names because I am sure to forget someone and don't want to offend, Not a bad idea. I'll look at a New Members section where we can archive useful posts, advice and maybe moderate that section stricter so that there is a gentler approach. You guys know that I work on the "blunt is best" principle when it comes to replies, and that people need to have a thick skin and if they stick around they will be fine. But maybe a section with no negative stuff and only the gentle approach would be a decent idea. Translations to be done only in that section, but basic advice for novices to be posted there and then they can be moved elsewhere if/when necessary. I'll look into that, and we would need members willing to help there that are like minded. Always considered that, and it is possible. Being in South Africa makes it a bit more difficult, and especially with all the countries present here, but it's something I have always considered. Simply because you can get free and accurate advice, in a very short space of time. Nowadays we are living in a world where every time you almost get decent info, you hit a paywall and are asked to pay for the "report" or something else. You can ask on forums, but unless those people have been there for years, how do you know if the person giving you advice has been studying for 3 weeks or 10 years? At least here you can see the person answering you has 10,000 posts and been around for years, so his advice is probably more reliable. Just watch FB, where a person posts a sword, and 5 people say "Genuine military sword" when it's obviously a fake, and the 2 or 3 people calling it out are drowned out by useless opinions from people whose exposure to swords comes from anime. Same with dealers. You search the forum, you are going to get decent accurate feedback about a dealer. And if he's a member, you know he isn't going to ghost you or con you. If that isn't worth paying $5 a month for...then I don't know. Agree with you on most of the above. Unfortunately no real report I can dig up on who posts where, but it's a fact that some will only post in one section and ignore everywhere else. Another thing that most don't know about is how many amateur dealers spend their days reaching out to novices who post, buying up their swords. I obviously don't have access to pm's, but have been made aware of how often and regularly it happens. Some build an amateur business out of doing that. Banner ads are likely going to happen. There isn't any reason not to try and use it to generate income. The question is how many dealers (both members and others out there even if they aren't members) would be willing to pay for some extra exposure. It's easy to say "Japanese dealers don't care" or "larger US/European dealers don't think it's worth it" but these comments ignore exactly how many people browse this site and aren't members. A dealer who wants to ignore several thousand weekly views and thinks it's not important really don't need the money. I have access to the figures, and us posting here are a tiny part of the people browsing, from over 32 countries. If dealers want to try clickable ads at a very fair price (still need to decide how much) then it may very well pay off for them. Another question is....do I make ads visible to everyone, or make not seeing them a perk of Gold membership? On one hand, not seeing them would be a good incentive for Gold membership. But on the other hand, advertisers would probably not want them hidden from anyone. Hmmmm

I agree with an additional tier. That has no extra benefits just supporting the forum. Ok you are just feeding off the gold members that are willing to pay more but I think many would. Banner ads don't bother me. With the sword photos sharing etc. i know a lot wouldn't this is normal but I think enough would. I really enjoy it and sharing what I have for open discussion.

@uwe @Luc T @Bugyotsuji The hachi has now arrived via FEDEX (as usual an excellent service). Ignore all colours in the images. I have used an led torch. Whilst I am an absolute beginner when it comes to Kabuto I have handled a lot of Japanese metalwork including pieces in iron and the first thing that struck me when I unpacked it was that it is “substantial” by that I mean heavy and solid and apparently very well made.(of course this is just my uneducated opinion!) The “stuff” that was apparently oozing out between the edges of the plates is in fact layer upon layer of rust that has built up under the overlaps and in places is forcing the plates apart. The whole of the interior is covered in varying degrees of rust (ignore the colours in the attached images. The interior is a dark orange rusk colour all over) This contrasts with the exterior condition that looks very well cared for and preserved. The tehen Kanetomo appears to be made from several different layers but very firmly fixed together. Nothing spins around. I can see “gaps” between the layers I think. One layer has the remains of a black patination. The downward facing “arrows” on the exterior look well formed in copper and sit upon a plate that seems to be bronze that has acquired a pleasing mottled patina. That bronze plate sits on top of the iron plate beneath it. There are remnants of silk lacing where a shikoro was once attached. To me it looks like the exterior has been very well looked after whilst the interior was slowly deteriorating presumably hidden by the lining. The degree of layered rust inside does not suggest to me recent manufacture. Please see attached images. PLEASE! I really look forward to what you all have to say. I’m sure I’m wrong but I think it’s best to “have a go”…..I learn quickly from mistakes🙂 Many thanks. Colin

関住河村兼力 - Seki ju Kawamura Kanechika

Not even close. https://www.jauce.com/auction/e1199533437

As I thought you have sharp eye. This seller smells like jauce. Im almost 100% that he is a collector moving his collection now.

Learn to look at what you need to look at.... This sword has been suriage, which means that the takanoha yasuri are not the original ones.