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I found myself a blade by Akiyoshi which didn’t surface on this forum before (I believe). It has quite an active Hamon, lots of activity, clusters of nie, lots to study though taking good pictures is a challenge. The numbering might be interesting for @Bruce Pennington.

I don't like to generalize, but these blue-background, cheap auction swords are very, very unlikely to provide you with a sword that is worthwhile to invest in restoration. Cheap swords like this are being sold at auction by dealers on eBay who know what they are selling, and are selling pieces cheaply for a reason. Like the "Original Old BIG Japanese Tachi Sword Signed Hamon Horimono" we discussed earlier, these are items which may look cheap on the surface, but if you look closely the underlying mess of issues makes it clear why the price is what it is and that these are not good candidates to invest in. You are much better off waiting and buying a kai-gunto which already has a blade in good quality Japanese restoration, and if you are patient you are likely to find one for less than it would cost to have a katana polished (along with new shirasaya and all the other restoration-related expenses).

The original picture shows roughness, which is very easily attributed to rough forging, rather than casting. If anything, casting a liquid metal might leave a flatter surface, albeit with maybe a sand-like appearance. But, I may have mentioned this somewhere in the 20 pages here, and I am certainly not the only one: we cannot judge if a tsuba is cast iron from photos alone.

I have been collecting edged weapons for over 60 years beginning with some bayonets taken back from WW2 by relatives. Searched for more bayonts from all over the world, for 25 years then Military Officers Swords, German Daggers, Edged weapons from many countries and then picked up my first Nihonto in the mid 80's. Not many dealers around and E-bay didn't even exist so it was hard work getting any assortment and I became pretty well read and took what came up. I managed to acquire some nice pieces and some real dogs which I moved on and in the mid nineties sold all my non-Japanese blades to a large arms dealer, over 250 bayonets, 150 large swords, all classes of German Dress daggers etc etc. By then their were some Nihonto dealers and E-bay was not too bad intitially so added and subtracted till I now only have about 25 blades. Back in the day as I said you took what you could get and PAPERED blades were very rarely available, and when they were the prices were nuts. So - many of my first purchases were mumei and/or unpapered. Now in my mid-seventies with no relatives with any interest in Nihonto I am going to sell some of my little collection and hopefully someone will be thankful to get an antique katana of any type to appreciate and care for for the rest of this century and pass it on to another collector starting out. I am offering them for roughly the same price I paid for them as I never really thought of them as an investment but remember these were dollars from 40 years ago so their may have been a little inflation since then - or I paid too much for them back then!! Both Katana's are in shirasaya, in good polish with no defects or kizae and attractive blades in their own right. Katana # 1 Nakago: Ubu Mei : Mumei Papered; Nope Era/Age : Mid Edo period Mounts ; Shirasaya Nagasa: 26" Sori : Torii-Zori Hamon Type : Gunome Midare - and uguha Jihada : Masame Other Hataraki Visible : Flaws : None Sword Location : Canada Will ship to : Anywhere you want to pay for. Payment Methods Accepted : Pay Pal , Electronic Funds Transfer Price and Currency : 2600 USD Wakizashi # 2 Nakago: Ubu, Mei : Tadayoshi - probably Gimei but in his style and well executed. Papered; Nope Era/Age : 18th century Mounts: Shirasaya Nagasa: 21.5 " Sori : Torii-Zori Hamon Type : Jihada : O-mokume Other Hataraki Visible : Flaws : None Sword Location : Canada Will ship to : Anywhere you want to pay for. Payment Methods Accepted : Pay Pal , Electronic Funds Transfer Price and Currency : 2000 USD Thanks for taking the time to read and take a look at the photos -=

Hi Everyone My name is Sebuh, i’ve recently gained an interest in Nihonto at the young age of 17. (Just turnt 18) After years or watching al sorts of media, seeing the Katana used and all. Guess that what’s caused my interest or, at-least planted the seed in my mind. After a few months of hiding around and obsessively reading content on Kamakura swords, my tastes have evolved. I appreciate Heian now, far far more. Late Heian to Early Kamakura seems to be my area. I’m based in New York City, Queens to be precise. Currently the only person not above the age of 40 into the hobby I think. I’ve been looking into the New York Token Kai, but a bit worried that i’d be the youngest there but i’ll make way eventually. Apologies for not introducing myself sooner, but it’s never too late. (hopefully)

It was a very nice edition, maybe the best till now! I met a lot of new JAS-members, and it was an honour to give a lecture for you all.

It was a very nice weekend indeed and as Oli said, it was very nice to meet some people live. Our neighbors from Germany, people from Austria, Australia, Great Britain, Japan, the states. You guys know who you are We had some good conversations and fun.

Steve, it is not that there are no deals but rather that it takes a lot of study to identify them. I am glad to hear that you were able to return the tachi. My suggestion is to focus in a serious way on reading good references, and develop a more specific goal for what you would like to purchase. Then research the candidates that fit your goals. Looking for a "navy cheap enough to get it polished" is fairly vague and open-ended. Are you looking for a gendaito in kai-gunto koshirae, or an older sword in the same type of mountings? I would suggest not rushing, take your time to think about what you would like to collect and study legitimate examples (in books, and in-person if possible). You may find that what you thought you wanted in the beginning is not where your collecting goals end up.

I should clarify, when I gave the feedback above I was not just saying gimei but indicating that the blade itself does not look Japanese (typical for Komonjo and similar sellers). What type of feedback are you looking for on the hamon? It is notare, and appears to be vacant of hataraki from what I can see in the photos.

This looks much like a Komonjo-type gimei.

Hi @jdawg221, Moving your post to the wanted to buy section. Best of luck in your search, -Sam

The article above was written by Tanobe-sensei. He says, (my loose translation of the salient bits) Regarding Tomoshige 1st; he is said to have been either a student of Rai Kunitoshi, or a student of Kashū Sanekage. However, by looking at the the oldest extant sword believed to have been made by Tomoshige 1st (Important Art object in the Atsuta Shrine) the former claim, while not impossible from an age standpoint, seems difficult to accept judging by the style in which the sword was made. Meanwhile, the latter claim is inconsistent with the age of the sword. Indeed, judging from the work of the jiba, and from the shape of the nakago jiri being in the style of Katayama, and from the workmanship being of the kind often seen in kanmuri-otoshi blades, it seems as if it is a continuation of the Yamato tradition, and swordsmith groups coming from Yamato, such as the Uda who settled in Etchū in the Hokuriku, and Nobunaga et. al who carried on the Taima tradition in Echizen Asago, are gaining attention.

As above Fukumoto Kanemune of Amahide workshop. Showa 18 (1943) September. Looks to have a small "na" stamp for Nagoya Arsenal. For this workshop go to NMB Downloads, Member Articles, find Amahide.

Hi Zac, beautiful authentic piece, age is pretty much correct, so in excess of 200 years and counting. Multiple metals used in the inlay, the birds black colour as well as the filled hitsu-ana is shakudo an alloy of copper and gold. The pine trees in sentoku [brass]? I don't see much silver but it could be there? I do like the box with the hand typed message even with the confusion of the +/t If I were you I would keep hold of it

Congratulations to you Jesta for bidding and winning a fine tsuba. And thank you Marius for a great initiative in securing funding for a great forum - including all Brian’s administrative work and hassle in keeping us all happy and aligned 😜 A small side donation has been made to the NMB from my side as recognition of that work. Thank you Brian 👏🏻 /Soeren

It is very likely that the sword is fatally damaged, the kissaki has been very crudely reshaped, the natural fukura (curvature of the kissaki) removed completely and most probably the boshi is gone at this point. I don't see any indication of a naginatanaoshi here, this appears to be a o-suriage mumei katana (Shinto or earlier) but with likely fatal issues due to the amateur reshaping of the kissaki combined with non-fatal forging flaws.

Because they are selling the fittings only, and that is how fitting are displayed, with a wooden dummy blade called a tsunagi.

okay then! Having to delete a post or two. I'm going to leave Dan's last one up. I don't really agree with him, but do feel he is entitled to his opinion and I shouldn't edit the thread very much. It has not my favorite thread, as I find the topic very subjective over the last 25+ years. Please keep the disagreements civil as possible.

I was also on the Expo, for first time. I was only present on Friday. One day is far too short to see everything in detail. It was very nice and i learned a lot! The dealers and personal was very friendly and we had a very good time. I am also planning to attend next year. Then for the whole weekend! Also the city Utrecht is wonderful. But the parking spaces are a disaster

This seems to have been an interesting discussion. It was politely presented and edited so I am not sure I have fully understood and followed the discussion. I am also not sure I understand it all. Still, in collecting Japanese things - swords and guns included, the safest strategy is if avoid anything that is "unusual." But I have to add in the case of matchlocks, if something looks/seems "Japanese" but is "unusual", I have to ask what else would it be?

Agree with everything Ray said. Odd and consistent how they get these flat, lifeless hamon (acid enhanced) with zero activity or anything else showing.

The mei appears to be Nobutada.

This is in fact a kamon, but it is very crudely executed. Does the blade has a mei of Inoue Shinkai? Compare with the precision of the example below.

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Welcome. I think you'll find the NYTK has some great and advanced members, and they would welcome the chance to assist the new generation coming into this hobby. We have quite a few NY members, and you are lucky to have Markus at the Met, as well as some awesome collections. Enjoy the ride!

Thanks, Leen! Excellent sword! Fujita Akiyoshi, Yamagata prefecture. First one of his I've seen with the kana before the number.

-Thanks Spartancrest. Unfortunately there's no maker mark/signature on it so i wasnt sure what else to ask or look into. The box had the message/signature but no other markings to help. Appreciate it!

Welcome, all!

Blades like this typically don't command much on the market. Its a mass-produced user piece from its time. Worn-down mumei muramachi blade with big flaws and out of polish. Artistic value is approximately nil, though it does have historical value as an example of what it is, not to mention it would probably still poke a hole in something just fine if needs be. Without any koshirae your market gets smaller. I have a similar one in a similar state I would let go for a hundred bucks and a beer..though you might do a little better. Please note I am not an expert and this is not financial advice.

Calabrese, did I say the WABI concept has to be applied always without exception? I hope not. But there are many examples. See the YATSU HASHI below. https://tsubashi.com/product/yatsuhashi-bridge-with-irises-tsuba/ We could possibly discuss without result if there is an unfinished bridge depicted or just the idea of one. You can also read about René Magritte (Ceci n'est pas une pipe https://www.planet-schule.de/mm/nie-wieder-keine-ahnung/malerei/epochen/surrealismus ). Even detailed "finished" works of art may just give you an idea, an imagination of the real thing! Only bad work and laziness would need an excuse.

This is Token Bijutsu 416. Unfortunately without translation but in the text Rai Kunitoshi is mentioned. You can also find the sword in "Swords from Kyoto" between Rai and Ryokai.

Yeah, you are completely wrong. It's very obvious. Also, you need to learn the difference between hammer marks and "casting pits" which are not present on this tsuba. You also seem to think that designs of tsuba weren't spread across multiple traditions, schools and eras. How are you going to compare a tsuba with a completely different one, like they are supposed to be the same? You also don't seem to know much about tagane and semigane.

Once again a nice weekend in Utrecht and it was very nice to meet some people in live.

@Bugyotsuji Piers, I was not ignoring your ceramic netsuke……it’s just that I know nothing about them and have never even handled one. As you suggest, many (most?) have not survived to tell their tale. They do have a charm all of their own though.

Sorry to say this is not a legit netsuke. It is a low quality “look alike” intended for the modern market. Probably not carved in Japan.You can see the dragons scales have been fashioned using a rotary tool eg a dremmel with a small round burr rather than a sharp blade or graver. It lacks artistry and refinement. I believe this is what Piers aptly describes as a “netsuke like object”. Apologies for disappointment…..but I suspect you suspected.

Hi! This is a Gunto, and the signature says, "兼宗 Kanemune 昭和十八年九月 September, 1943".

Type (Tachi, Katana, Wakizashi, Tanto, Naginata, Other) : Katana Ubu, Suriage or O-Suriage : Ubu Mei : (Mumei, Signature) : Signature + "Made to order for the Imperial Household Ministry" Papered or not and by whom? : NBTHK Hozon Era/Age : Meiji - 1872 Shirasaya, Koshirae or Bare Blade? : Shirasaya Nagasa/Blade Length : 69.3cm Sori : 1.6cm Hamon Type : Combination notare with hakoba "box" and bamboo node "fushi" Jihada : mokume and masame Other Hataraki Visible : Intentional ara-nie covers the entire habuchi along the blade, inner hamon nioi with sungashi nie in several places, some chikei as well Flaws : 1 small kizu near the habaki (pictured below) Sword Location : USA Will ship to : Anywhere Payment Methods Accepted : PayPal Price and Currency : $4000 USD (includes shipping) Other Info and Full Description : Commissioned by the Imperial Ministry during the short period where the Imperial Household re-established a sword body right after the banning of swords. Full inscription: [Kaga-koku Kanazawa-junin] 加賀国金沢住人 then family name [Kinoshita] 木下 the smith name [KANETOYO-saku] 兼豊作 and the reverse side is the date [Forged in the 8th month, Sheep, the 9th calendar sign, Meiji 4th] and then [Made to order for the Imperial Household Ministry] 宮内省御用ニ付. The Katsukuni 勝国 lineage of the Darani school 陀羅尼 served the Maeda clan, feudal lords of Kaga Province. The lineage continued from the 2nd Katsukuni 勝国 to Yasuhira 泰平(originally Katsuie 勝家), then to Kanehisa 兼久, and finally to Kinoshita Jinnosuke Kaneshige 木下甚之丞兼重 and Kinoshita Jin’go 木下甚吾 (this sword)

FYI, from two sets of experiments done in the early 2000s with bladesmiths (published by Prof. Takuo Suzuki), there is little evidence that the "impurity" content (I mean atoms that are not interstitials, like carbon) actually changes with folding. Only the carbon content and the amount/shape/distribution/size of inclusions changes with the folding and forging process. About the effect of composition, it has a clear effect on oxidation, but I am not aware that it changes the colour of polished steel. Forging indeed will give you smaller grains, but then again, how the smith heats the blade prior to quenching will also change this grain size. There was a very nice study in Prof. Morito's team where they managed to show how different the grain size prior to quenching was with different smiths. Also, I thought a lot of the final aspect of the blade depended on the polisher. But here, I have virtually no knowledge. EDIT: All that to say that I think the carbon content, the smith, and the polisher have a larger effect on the final aspect of the blade than the other elements present in minute concentrations.

Hallo Jelle, I would also like to point out that it would be beneficial if you joined De Nederlandse Token vereniging (Dutch Token Society). We offer 4 yearly meetups, with lectures and the possibility to sell or trade blades. You can always join one meeting to see if it would fit your taste. You might be able to find something there that fits your needs. http://www.to-ken.nl/ Greetings, Lex

The akasaka isnt AKASAKA.

I’ll be a bit late…currently in Dokkum for a stopover!

Yes, even if the second hanger were original, the set wouldn't be worth $5,000 USD on the market! That's twice the price of a full Type 94 with a gendai blade in it.

Cormorant fishing

Welcome on board Charles! I hope you will find a lot of helpful information here as well as good and helpful members to talk to! Feel free to show your treasures (personally I'd like to see your Ken Tanto (?) ceremonial piece with Sand-script writings) - we love to see good pictures of them.

Hello Everyone, I just joined this forum and would like to introduce myself to you all. My passion lies in Fine antiques especially from Japan. I started collecting knives and all sorts until I bought my first late edo Tanto from Jumyo. Its a Ken Tanato ceremonial piece with Sand-script writings on it. I have since collected two more blades. One of them dated 1935 (Aug) showa period, by Kasama Shigetsugu The sword is a copy of Kanemitsu works from before. Another one is a Gendai Nihonto made by Enju Nobutsugu that copies the Minamoto Kiyomaro with an O-Kissaki, dated 1985 (Aug). Since then, the study and collection has been my main passion and I hope to learn more and know more like minded people! Thanks and have a great one! Cheers, Charles

Hi everyone, I‘m from germany and new in the field of nihonto and tosogu. This forum is a treasure trove to learn more about these. I have a small collection of mainly western and some Japanese antiques, which I open up to new subject areas from time to time. kind regards, Simon

Hello, everyone. I am an aikidoka (30 years of training, thus far), and I am here because serious interest in nihonto has sort-of crept up on me in the last ten years. For twenty years, the only swords I used were bokken and shinai, but then one evening a friend who is a blacksmith handed me a katana, and going out into his backyard and practicing some suburi was a revelation. So I started to look into what was involved in acquiring one, and my first inquiry was with a friend I know from my native plant interests, whose late father was an important kendo master. I asked C.--do you know about swords? And her answer... "I know a little." Which is to say, more than a little, but then she said, "I have a sword, I don't know what to do with it and it sits in a closet somewhere, but I will give it to you." She had given her father's swords to his students, but one of those students saw this sword in a pawn shop and told her to buy it, which she did, and she took it to K., also a kendo master and sword polisher, had it polished, and put it away in her closet for decades. I thought that what she really wanted was for me to sell the sword for her, so I took it to K., and asked him if they could help me submit it for shinsa, and then help me sell it for her. He knew I was a musician and that I played the violin, and after examining the sword and showing me some of its features (it is a wakizashi in shirasaya by Hyuga Daijo Sadatsugu--I did submit it to NBTHK and it made Hozon. Image below), he bluntly asked me, "Do you know about violins?" I said, "I know a little." Then he asked me if I would look at a violin for him. Of course. He brings out a very low-quality violin, made in Czechoslovakia in the 1920s. Violins like this were made by farmers in the off-season, and they could hack out a fiddle in a day, sold by the dozen to wholesalers ("dutzendarbeit"--"dozen-work"...like all those Muromachi-era quickly-made mumei katanas, right? Whenever someone finds a "Stradivarius" in their attic, it invariably is one of these with a Strad label stuck in it). I remembered the sword etiquette of not speaking ill of a sword, so I endeavored to describe this fiddle in the most positive terms, stressing the real skills of these makers to make a functional fiddle in a day (true), that the materials were very good (also true of a lot of these), and that some of them sound and play wonderfully (also true, sometimes). But I respectfully pointed out one other significant issue and described it using the nihonto term--"fatal flaw". The violin had a sound post crack on the back. I told him that it is technically reparable but would cost thousands of dollars to have a luthier do the work, so this sort of thing is only done on very valuable violins. So, when I again mentioned submitting the sword for shinsa, and then selling it for C., K. looked me in the eyes and said, very firmly, "No, you must not sell it! You must keep this sword, it has chosen you, and you must learn from it." When I told C. what my plan had been and what K. said to me, she laughed and said, "See?! I TOLD you that this was your sword!" And that is how I acquired my first blade. I don't intend to become a collector (I have that affliction in other areas--antique tribal carpets, musical instruments), though there are now two other blades in my life. But K. was right that C.'s wakizashi (below, and--apologies about the quality of the images) has indeed taught me. And it ultimately led me here. Thank you for all the information! Paul

Koto Kanabo Masatsugu Katana. Tokubetsu hozon. It is thought that this sword is his earliest known work.