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a quick post from a 1995 jssus edition. peter is a time traveller

Hello, sometimes great wishes come true, my first daisho. Everything fits together well, an identical outfit. The two blades seem to be old, I don't have much experience to judge that yet . A new polish of the blades is certainly no longer possible, the material does not allow it. A nice addition to my collection. Uwe

Dear Tosogu friends, I let you comment this Umetada Shigeyoshi ( 埋忠橘重義 ) Tsuba. If someone has a clue on who is the artist having signed it (among the 12 to 15 artists having signed this way) it would be a plus. Other question: I guess the design is height Ginko leaves and represents a Family crest . What are you views? Thank you

Well I thought I'd post an interesting item here and I hope it will be of intrest to some. At first I thought I'd post this with something like multiple submissions etc. as that is probably what caught my attention the first time. However now that I've looked more into it I feel it is much more interesting than just chat about multiple NBTHK submissions / results. Unforunately with my limited Japanese I cannot fully read the entries from Jūyō books but I will include some info I can see there. At first I just saw this in Jūyō 24 book, and thought it was nice dated Bitchū tanto. The signature has been cut off and it was attributed to Suketsugu (助次). This has interesting mei on mune too which I will come to shortly. At the moment on first encountering it I did not think too much about it. However as fellow NMB member sent me PDF of index for Jūyō 32 book as I was still missing that session results. There I noticed that this same tanto had been sent again as was in the back as I believe these reissued items are not in actual item count as they were already Jūyō, and this time it had been attributed to Yasuie (安家). Interesting but still I didn't think too much about it as it can easily happen with part of the signature missing. Now I just spent bit more time researching this, as it appears again in in the back of Jūyō 48 book, and this time the book has lot more detailed information. First the mei is very interesting. 備中国妹尾住刑部尉安 (Cut off) / 文保二年二月廿日 / (棟に) 生年七十一作 [安家] Bitchū no Kuni Senoo jū Gyōbu no Jō (Cut off but is attributed to Yasuie, in 48th they have included the Yasu to it as previously it was also missing) / Bunpō 2nd year, 2nd month 20th day (1318) / An on the mune - at the age of 71. This very rare signature gives awesome information about the smith. Now what makes this really interesting is that the Jūyō book entry mentions another similarily signed sword, a tachi with the following mei. 備中国妹尾刑部尉安家 / 生年六十九 / 正和五年二月十七日 Bitchū no Kuni Senoo Gyōbu no Jō Yasuie / at the age of 69 / Shōwa 5th year 2nd month 17th day (1316). The Jūyō entry states the source being [光山押形] which is an old oshigata book, that can be accessed in National Diet Library database: https://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/1183687 and I was able to search and find it, see the leftmost sword in the oshigata picture. Unfortunately I have not seen this tachi anywhere in modern world. Now it seems that there is another signed tachi by Yasuie from (1316) 備中国妹尾刑部丞安家 / 正和五年十二月十日 that passed in Jūyō 60 but unfortunately I don't have the book for session 60 yet. This might be bit complicated topic and maybe not suited for beginners as it can be bit overwhelming. I have had just so much fun tracking the info down today so I thought I'd share this here.

Its much easier to run kantei than to answer it, and for me its also tougher to kantei Edo period blades. Kambun to Genroku shinto. I want to say second generation Hizen Masahiro, but the work is clearly a bit different, have to look more for who was similar to him in style. But then kissaki hints is a bit more towards shinshinto... need to think more.

Hi Alessandro, For the beginner, a good introduction to Nihonto can be had from either The Samurai Sword by Yumato or The Japanese Sword by Sato. Then move into more detail with The Conniosseur's Book of Japanese Swords by Nagayama, Facts and Fundamentals of Japanese Swords by Nakahara, the 6 volumes of Nihonto Koza that have been translated to English by Harry Watson, and the 2 volumes of Nihon Toko Jiten by Fujishiro for a reference that allows you to check signatures against authentic examples (and won't break the bank). If you get serious about Nihonto you should consider the 59 volumes of the English edition of Token Bijutsu from the NBTHK, in my opinion they are the best information on the subject in English. After those, there are so many good books I wouldn't run out of suggestions until long after you ran out of money. My website: japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com, has hundreds of books, with descriptions and pictures, so you can get an idea what they are. And maybe someone else will have a recommendation. Cheers, Grey

Well we here in Australia are lucky - only returned Australians and a few visitors, all in quarantine, have covid. We have had very little covid overall , Tasmania none at all now for 5 months. Shoki must be doing his job very well here! Arigato Shoki https://www.jauce.com/auction/k447588850 - He certainly gets about!

Hi Alessandro, You ask, do you have any general guidelines to recommend? something to watch out for? Have you heard the one about the young man with a violin case under his arm looking lost on a sidewalk in NYC? He stops a lady and asks, "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?" She answers, "practice." I recommend study: books, in hand examination of good swords, attending shows, asking questions. And if you want to buy a good sword for the money, until you are able to answer your own questions buy only from reputable dealers. Grey

I had pictures saved but couldn't find them, thanks for the link, Thomas. The kabuto-gane is very similar to my eye. The sword is from the US and according to the dealer, was sold by the veterans son, who also had a wakizashi (that wasn't purchased).

Tom, This style of kabuto is relatively common, as Uwe mentioned they were mass produced for Okashi-Gusoku (loan Armour) in Kaga and date to the Edo period. The Dou are far less common though, I have seen a couple of partial sets of these Okashi-Gusoku, they tend to be comprised of a simple 6 plate kabuto, Tsubame Hanbo, Hotoke Dou and simple Sangu with rounded plates. Each element is finished in the same lacquer as the helmet and Dou and the Ie-ji (baking fabric) tends to be light blue or tan Asa (hemp) with Mid blue trim. I have attached a couple of images below for reference, note the Haidate (Thigh guards) and Suneate (Shin guards) do not belong to the set. The damage to the Hachi is likely just from neglect, it appears to have rusted through. While not high end items or in good condition there are things to learn from such items, I hope they bring you joy.

Hello all! I've been on the forum since 2012 (had another account but I lost the login info for that and the email I attached the account to is also gone - was a uni email). I actually came here after I fell in love with a friend's gunto and really wanted to hunt down a kyu gunto. My taste evolved over time but that kyu gunto itch is still there. Finally, today, I scratched that itch. Got a deal on a blade from a fellow NMB member. It a mumei blade with fujishiro papers attributing it to Nobutaka (original owner thought it might be the shodai) . Really unique lacquered Saya which I've never seen in a kyu gunto before. Mount still in pristine condition and the safety catch works perfectly. Another unique aspect of the package as a whole is the German engraving on the hilt. Anyway, enjoy! I wonder if I should send it to get an evaluation and nail down the generation of Nobutaka. I'm still fairly new at the pampering system so I'm not sure how reliable the fujishiro paper is (also if anyone can help me with the translation it'll be fantastic!)

G'day guys, Would you call this an utsushi of an older blade? It is by the Nidai Tango (no) Kami Kanemichi and is ubu, but the bohi runs all the way along the nakago. The dimensions are: Nagasa: 69.5cm Sori: 2.0cm Motohaba: 2.9cm Sakihaba: 2.0cm Kissaki: 3.0cm Kasane 0.7cm The hada is a very tight koitame. Cheers, Bryce

Maxime, that's a beautiful display, wow! Where do you get a glass case like that, or is it custom-built?

Oktober ??? or in english October ??? a bit late so to call a warning - NOT ? bu well.... i personally noticed that ad.

extremely strange! ( i do repeat me ) i had myself some change in Tsuba collection with Grev in past years! I never had any complaints! neither from custom, neither from providers and last but not least by customer..... as i say! i never personally had any such complaints yet.... UK or US.... Thank you for the warning!

OK! Thank you Brian! i got a bit confused reading this.... as i do have 2 or three " Grev`es" here in the collectioners interest. OK! i do see! even worser!

sorry, i do but not really understand this story here! i do confess! Those both Tsuba were dispatched via the US - comming from France... right? Again dispatched from the US to Great Britain....right ? so back to Europe again / hopefully in full contract! eitherway.... very strange! i never ever had any loss during my collectors career yet! always thought reading such is rather nomenclature to the average level..... as i say, this is very strange!

this is all strange indeed. very strange indeed! ?????

Great looking tsuba, I see a Peony flower.

Oh! s**t, I made a mistake. The source says it's second generation, and I should have put the image in the right place. I couldn't find a satisfying image of the first generation of Kanemichi. https://www.touken-world.jp/search/22191/

This is an interesting subject by itself. I'm seeing a variety of ways to mention the type of steel used in a blade by various smiths. Some are written out on the nakago. Some use stamps. This one is actually on the blade. I'm not aware of an edict requiring such mention (or else they all would do it), so there must be some sort of pride in the local steel used, like a marketing statement. "Buy my sword, it's made of Yasugi Steel!" That sort of thing.

Flat one side and fullered on the other is a very Austrian trait, looks like the Meiji military took ideas from more than the French and the Prussians.

Hello Bryce. The first generation of Kanemichi is in the style of Kanbun-shinto, and the second generation is in the style of Genroku-shinto. None of them are the revival of old-fashioned Katana. I picked up several types of Kanemichi's signatures online. With the sword of your topic in between, the left side is the first generation and the right side is the second generation. I couldn't determine which topic sword belonged to. Do you know the answer?

Hi Bryce, My feeling is that it’s not an utsushi as there isn’t enough about the sugata to suggest that. To me it looks like a typical sugata from the mid to late 17th century. The workmanship is also more Shinto than koto for me: the ko itame hada and the hamon reaching fairly high up towards the shinogi. The issue is the tang being overly long and with the groove continuing through and the second mekugi ana. I think this makes it a custom order either from someone who wanted to wear it as a tachi on formal occasions and/ or, I think more likely, someone who took his swordsmanship seriously. The longer tang would alter the feel of the sword and by shifting the hands downwards on the tsuka some extra reach could be gained without flouting the laws regarding sword lengths. The continuation of the hi could be for aesthetic reasons or to adjust the balance of the blade to compensate for the longer tang. The second peg would give security in case the other broke or would fit the tachi koshirae idea. All speculation obviously...a really nice sword though.

Value is not the same as price.

This page from Ohmura mentioned Type 95 used Army standard sword steel(刀劒鋼) and has some main ingredients and impurities date of the sword steel.

The one page you provided is sort of on the mark, as collections are probably smaller today than they were 25 years ago. The collections of 80 to 100 or more swords are likely not part of modern collection due to climbing prices.

Tom I agree that regardless of monetary value it is cool and an important part of history too.

Another collector has reported coming across a few over the years, nearly all attached to high quality Kai Gunto.

More pictures

One of the three Meiji-era Japanese Army short swords and it can be found in Dawson's book. This version is just dated and has no crossguard serial number.

Thanks @Bruce Pennington Im going to pass on this piece. Too many questions. Jesse

Jean , both tsuba are high quality and will come soon or later on the market. We'll have an eye on them.

I just recently tracked that sword down and here is a link to it. RAREST Unknown type pattern of the late war 1944 Japanese NCO Sword My initial thoughts when seeing the "Island Sword" was that it fell into the late war category as per the link below. Was the sword acquired in Australia or from some other country? last ditch naval rinji?

I. Purchased the book and I am enjoying it. It is nice to see sketches of some of the things I really like. E.g. Shiachi, Dharuma, flowers etc.

Acala in Siddham script Ref. Acala - Wikipedia

Crap. Those are some more distinct ones- especially the mirror maker one. I will keep an eye open for them.

Had one like that. Could go anywhere. Likely Mino. Everything goes Mino...

I didn't want to be the first to say it as though I was defending the sword, but I agree, Dave. It's hard to see, but the first few inches of the nakago are fine, then there's a bunch of impact marks from a hammer where it goes wonky and at the end, you can actually see the layers of steel peeling. My thought was a damaged blade being reused.

Yeah I'm aware, but I don't exactly have the funds right now to buy a full set of true samurai armour. This is antique armour made for battle over 250 years ago , and that's still quite cool and interesting to me despite its "value".

I have never looked into the subject until now, but it is very interesting. for me at the moment, with the chimney fire running 24 hours a day, I am at 45%, below 40% it is harmful to the lungs I believe. other photos: (it is still around 45%) except the last one, which is strange, hoping that it is a malfunction of the hygrometer, because 58% is too much

From an archaeologists perspective I think it is important to have as many confirmed real examples as possible documented for all to see. We can then analyze the patterns, similarities and differences together comparing the rare item to what we have confirmed. The most similar items we have to this zig zag navy tassel are the army general tassels, and even those vary from early - late war models. If we want to be more "scientific" about our analysis of these rare items I think we should have well detailed side by side pictures comparing the multi-coloured general tassels (early - late war variants) with these naval ones, what John has posted is a good start. In this case we have 1 naval example, if we can track down pictures of a few more to see how they compare to one another it would be beneficial to our understanding of them, however we will have to stick with comparing them to general tassels for now. This might be a bit over the top, but if we could try and standardize the background colour and the lighting conditions in which we photograph our tassels / gunto, I think it would make comparisons to other items a lot easier as colour and certain areas of the items will provide more information.

Welcome Tomas! Well, okashi-gusoku (lent armor, “加賀藩” Kaga-Han). Maedate can be called “猪目前立” (inome maedate), also typical Kaga. The dou is an so called hotoke-dou (roku-mai/ryō takahimo, in this case) and numbered inside with “九十六” (96). In terms of age, I’ve still to do some research.... BTW: The last sentence in the listing is obviously a joke....

Yas one sold last night - https://www.jauce.com/auction/p817342531 not as nice, the window is empty. I have pictures of 18 utsushi [including the one you posted and this one] Samurai must have loved a good cup of tea! I know of two sets of daisho as well. The set here is described as Bushu also, but has no signature - so it may be a guess. We already have one Bulldog to pat - if she would get out of bed!

Not exactly gunto display but ever since I saw the guide Stegel made in the General tassels thread, I thought it would make a good format for a display.

No no lad. --I've already given up a lot just to help a new one. Translating and finding them in the books then confirming signatures can be a fair bit of work. When I said, "To me #106 and #108 are interesting, but 105, 113, 114 might be worth more" I was being generously honest. Without doing the research, I would pick #106 and #108, but I might find one of the others more valuable-- if I did the work. Having been at it a long time now, those two are the ones that interest me the most in terms of materials and design. Those are the ones that I personally would pick up. I have no idea what #108 is signed, nor will I try to translate it. I found #106 odd enough that I tried to do the work on that one. It looks Kaga to me, but Kaga like that are not signed.... so I became curious what the heck it could be. The second character is more commonly found on later Higo pieces. Very curious. Unfortunately the signature yielded no more information to me. I really don't want to view it from the money angle. That is work. This is play.

As said above, this tsuba is a Nagoyamono (lit. Nagoya thing or object) and made as an affordable copy of Goto work. They are often described as shakudo but are actually nigurome, the copper base alloy before gold is added to make shakudo. Hence the brown rather than blue/black patina. Quality varies, yours (and mine attached) are mid range. Although the plate (ji) is decorated with nanako I've always found that the rim (mimi) has a gilded lizard skin nanako finish (as do the rims of the hitsu ana). Although this quality tsuba was almost certainly cast, the gilding and nanako seems to have been done by hand. So, not the best quality, but not cheapo castings either. My tsuba has Soten style samurai on it and I have seen a very similar example on a Japanese website described as Soten. So I' don't know if the Soten school were involved in making Nagoyamono or whether the craftsmen just copied Soten designs. Best regards, John

There are so many different types of utsuri (midare, choji, jifu, bo, shirake, etc ) also rendered in either nioi, ko-nie or nie , that it is difficult to generalise. Some modern smiths do achieve some sort of utsuri but one needs to be much more specific than saying “utsuri”. May I recommend browsing Darcy’s excellent website for examples of utsuri (I suggest go through his KoBizen for jifu, through Ichimonji and Hatakeda for choji, through Rai for nie utsuri, and look at his Oei for shirake) and also read Markus Sesko’s excellent blog entry on the topic plus the commentary below the MS blog entry.

Bruno, I believe the confusion of Yas and others might stem from the beautiful and smooth execution of the sekigane. Usually they are crude, protuberant and unsightly and clearly a rushed copper addition to fit a tsuba to a specific nakago. Here, yours are smooth, elegant and flush with the surface. I have seen this before and it has also caused a debate in the past whether it was intended, how/why it was done etc.

I dont believe these are navy.