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  1. Brian is, as usual, correct. I started the controversy by commenting on what I saw was a (being diplomatic) questionable Habaki. As a collector and student of Minatogawa Jinja blades, it naturally stood out, and was worthy of comment. I never used fake, fraud or anything inflammatory. We are here to show discuss study and importantly learn from others, especially those more knowledgeable. The information in your first post about Masatada was historically correct, and interesting. And Tom W is correct, that it is very difficult judging a blade from photos. I have been offered FAKE Masataka and Masatada blades recently, and as their value increases more will surface. I have a rule now that if I am interested in a Minatogawa or Yasukuni sword now, it must have been papered. Tom, I would love to see more photos of Koshirae, especially the tzuka. It is described as being rare, so seeing more of it would be enlightening.
    4 points
  2. Everyone is so touchy! I like it...it is well signed and unlikely to be gimei. That said...people can only comment on what they see. Tom...if you were studying these and were presented with a habaki that is completely different from known ones, don't you think it fair to mention it and discuss? This is not a forum where we post stuff just to get a lot of "wow!'s" The idea of studying and learning is to examine each detail and discuss variations. I don't see anyone claiming the whole thing is fake. Just people trying to understand things that are out of the norm. No need to get offended. If this is very early or was somehow presented outside of the norm, it could explain things. But let's not jump on everyone trying to understand variations. And by the same token, let's not immediately jump to gimei and try explain what we see. C'mon folks. I'd rather people share stuff like this with us than fear being run off as fake. It's an interesting piece with a very interesting mei. This is a good place to research more.
    3 points
  3. Hi Everyone, So this is one of the 4 complete nihonto from Grandpa's WWII cache, but this one is quite obviously pre-war. I have now taken what I hope are enough pictures to identify / appreciate it further. Please look and enjoy, and let me know if it's worth sending off for a polish / refitting! It seems to be in great shape, but it looks like my grandpa may have gone at it with a buffing wheel or something, hard to say for sure. The ito is disintegrating, literally crumbling to powder and leaving some residue on my hand every time I pick it up, and about a 3cm piece has already broken off. Some of the rayskin / same is missing too, but for a potentially VERY old blade, I can't fault it too much. I don't have the complete story of how my grandpa got it (the story I've been told is that he grabbed it from a pile that was destined for a bonfire), but I'm grateful he brought it back and kept it in relatively good condition. My (very preliminary) research suggests that there were many smiths signing kuniyuki, and there may have been more to this mei at some point, but it looks like I have a suriage blade on my hands. Unfortunately due to the condition of the polish I can't see much in the way of features, but someone with more experienced eyes might have better luck. It's got an incredible curve though, maybe a torii sori / naka sori? The kashira is of course the first thing that caught my eye a couple of months ago, which is why I have it as my avatar Please take a look and let me know your thoughts, and feel free to put any of the imgur pictures you like here too. Thanks! Link to the full album: https://imgur.com/a/rLVsD7L
    2 points
  4. This is not elitist, it is simply good advice and my opinion. With regards to items that would be more collectible in the same price points it simply requires a bit of online searching and there are way too many options. Expressing a Mumei Uda as a rarity is false and should not be allowed. Obviously you should consider a proper frame of validating sales posts before they go up instead of criticizing my advice and jumping on the band wagon calling it elitist. I am not saying do not buy this and instead buy this Juyo. I am just saying do not but mumei swords from certain time period, why is that elitist?
    2 points
  5. I agree, and have removed the 2 offending posts. Ray....it doesn't even need explanation why people can NOT interfere with sales unless there is blatant fraud or inaccuracy. I'm really getting tired of this "don't collect X or Y as it is beneath the level or proper collectors" If you say X should not be collected, care to share a link for something you approve of AT THE SAME PRICE POINT? If not, then all you are advocating is not collecting anything affordable to most. And that is obviously not how it works. We all know by now what we are supposed to collect. But that doesn't fall into many people's budgets. So they have every right to collect what they like as long as they strive to improve. I won't have any more of this elitist discussion based on unreachable goals for many.
    2 points
  6. Kawa, You are entitled to your opinion. However, you posting peoples swords in the Classified and bashing them in this thread is completely uncalled for. I bought this katana from Andy Quirt, a well respected person in the Nihonto community. He saw something in the sword as do I, but at this time, funds will not me allow to proceed with the restoration that I had planned. I wanted a longer, beefier blade to match up with another sword that I own and this fit the bill. I am offering it at a very good price (around 60% of what I paid for it) and you come on here and are telling people not to buy it. Completely unacceptable. Not all of us have huge budgets to spend on swords and not all of us care about papered swords either. You shouldn't be talking down to people in different situations and you should not be trashing other peoples sales.
    2 points
  7. I am not saying it is fake, I'm saying it is presenting a multitude of rare or undocumented variables that need validating by experts (not yokels like myself) before any conclusions can, or should, be made. While I cannot speak for others, throwing the dice on a $15,000 sword with no paperwork, no verification, no provenance and a known target for high end forgeries is simply not my modus operandi. If this $5000 bet or guarantee extends to the buyer then my hat goes off to Tom for standing by this sword.
    2 points
  8. The combination only shows up on some 1942 Mantetsu blades. I have posted in the past about this. https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/26165-attention-mantetsu-owners-a-survey/?do=findComment&comment=311598
    2 points
  9. Hi Mike, Some of these items look interesting. If you want an advice, could you please make 1 topic per sword, preferrably in something like nihonto branch and put there photographs of fittings+blade - entire blade, nakago, boshi and the most visible portion of hamon-hada. Its quite some work, but some of the pieces are interesting and you will likely get a rather detailed assesment on those. Some decent fittings, tanto which can be late Muromachi sue-seki, late Muromachi Bizen Sukesada... Kirill R.
    2 points
  10. Here's a photo with the habaki off. I tried to get more detail but failed unfortunately. I did notice that the middle number was kinda 'overstamped'. I had a bit of trouble at first. I have included a picture of the handle as well, which definitely has got to be real, so I'm fairly certain this blade is not a fake. Looking at it now, I think it may in fact bee a ク KU or a ワ WA instead.
    2 points
  11. Hello, I need some help regarding the school attribution of a Tsuba I purchased in 2002. I saw today that a similar tsuba with a Kicho paper was sold on Ebay. I post, herewith, pictures of my tsuba and the origami of the similar one published on Ebay. You help will be highly appreciated Bruno
    1 point
  12. I think it is 貞文 - Sadafumi
    1 point
  13. Good move Brian. I hate to get dragged into this, but feel the need to express my opinion about posting and style. Kawa San, please go back and read the thread. I read it, and it is clear that Alex bought a decent sword from a reputable dealer and is selling it at a deep loss because he has lost his job. Which part of that is not clear to you? Why would anybody with a shred of empathy make a concerted effort to undermine that person's ability to recoup some hard needed money at a very unfortunate time when many have lost their jobs? And yet, even after he told you this hard situation, you continued to prattle on hard-headed and completely tone deaf to Alex and his situation, arguing trivial points about taste, which should always be respected as a personal choice. At some point, it is no longer about your opinion about the rarity of a school, it's just about ego. When it gets to that point and you are clearly not listening to Alex, I don't think that anybody cares about your opinion about this small sword issue any more. You have turned what should be a light hearted and informative thread into a painful experience for Alex and anybody else who has the misfortune to read it. As a matter of respect, we should never get between buyers and sellers on this site, unless done in a non public way. There is an unwritten rule about this. If you did this at a sword show - walked up to a seller trying to make a deal with a buyer - and started talking crap about the sword, the deal, the seller etc., you might well be challenged to go out into the parking lot and settle things with the seller. This is just not cool. Just as importantly, Brian has given you a "cease and desist" order. There are at least a half dozen recent threads where you, using a variety of different names, have turned them into bitter personal nasty affairs. Frankly, I am surprised that Brian is even giving you rights to still post through him.
    1 point
  14. Not very much informative that certificate... At least no controversial statement there. 😁
    1 point
  15. My first sword went juyo with the NBTHK after polish with an attribution to the Ichimonji school of the early to mid kamakura period. Kajihara did a shinsa on it before that with an attribution to Moriie who founded the Hatakeda school. It certainly has all of the characteristics of Moriie. The nakago is ubu but unsigned. Perhaps it was made for someone important. I still have it. I guess that’s why my collection is so small. I was spoiled starting out. I bought it for ten dollars.
    1 point
  16. Jeez, cant get over this For the record you thick **$$$%%. I said Muromachi Uda with attributions are rare!!!. This site has reached a level where i no longer want anything to do with swords or people like the muppet above A disgrace ruining genuine sales, especially when im out of a job, you%%%%
    1 point
  17. Mine is Tetsunin (unconfirmed) I kept this one because it has been reduced to its most basic elements but is not going to win any beauty contests
    1 point
  18. I love it....welcome NMB to current times!
    1 point
  19. It might take a while, but that can be part of the fun of the hobby. It took me 2 years to find all the parts that were missing on my dad's Mantetsu. But it's worth the time and effort. In the end, you wind up with a really good looking gunto and the pleasure of making it all happen.
    1 point
  20. Dear Mike. You are quite right that the nakago has been shortened, in this case as the mei is a name you can assume that all the signature is there. Two character mei are quite common and although there are sometimes chracters after the mei they usually do not add much; "saku" is common but it just means ,"made". Because of the position of the lower mekugi ana next to the mei that is probably the original one. If you take the second mehugi ana and work ouit the distance between that and the machi, notches, then you can extrapolate the original length of the sword and that is a help with dating it. Well, your in now, Nihonto have got you! All you can do is enjoy the ride. All the best.
    1 point
  21. Dear Mike. Lots to like here. Don't worry about the ito, the wrap is not Japanese or original so nothing to concern yourself about there. Some very gentle restoration, a pair of nice menuki and a re wrap will make the tsuka look great. To address the title of your post, given that the mei still survives what would you estimate the original length to have been and what is it now? It looks far too short to have been a tachi. Just to be clear that is length from tip to the notch where the habaki rests. Can you see what happens to the hamon in the kissaki? If you can a sketch might help. If this were mine I would be exploring restoration and polish, not for financial reward but to preserve the sword. Let us know what you are planning. All the best.
    1 point
  22. Looks like 兼松茂満 I think Kanematsu ?Shigemitsu
    1 point
  23. Cannot find that one. Spatulate tridents.(?)They look somewhat like Yasu fishing spears, crossed. 簎・矠 or ヤス. Perhaps Kanji, or a Buddhist connection? Dang, I've lent out all my Kamon books, and now, just when I need them...
    1 point
  24. Bobby, You have a Japanese officer sword (Type 94 or 98, can't tell without pictures of the full saya (scabbard). Someone will help with the smith's name. More pictures of the full blade, and close-ups of the blade tip and a section of the blade showing the temper line, will help tell more about the blade.
    1 point
  25. OK, after seeing the rest of the pictures, it is clear that Tsuka was never fitted for that blade. Matching numbers on the saya, so that’s good!
    1 point
  26. Bruce, here's one for you. Star stamp ENDO TOMONARI, July 1944.
    1 point
  27. Haruto Kudō was an engineer, metallurgist, chairman of Yasuki Steel Production Co., councilor of the Japanese Sword Tanren Kai, General Manager of Hitachi Manufacturing, and then President of Nissan Motors. I don't know if this was presented to him, or if it was made under the direction of him. (My impression is that it was presented to him, but I don't exactly understand the relationship of the word 御左右 (an term of respect indicating instruction or orders with the recipient and the presenter).
    1 point
  28. I also have a blade signed Munemitsu but have decided I may never know which generation made the piece. The closest I will probably get to that goal will have to involve shinsa. Shannon H.
    1 point
  29. During the last 5 years I owned four swords with makers not listed in Meikan. 2 were from shinshinto, 2 from Oei to Onin period. Previously my experience was sort of the same - these two periods are ripe with unlisted work. Out of the four only one was very much provincial, the other 3 were actually major works of major schools. I would take "no extant swords" with scepticism when talking about Oei to Onin generations. In many cases it means no known nenki to the author at the time the list was compiled, simply because very few swords were produced post Oei till Onin, so the work which in theory might be from this time's generation by default is assumed to be from Tenbun or Oei. Kirill R.
    1 point
  30. I have only one Kaigunto for all my years of collecting and it has a mon on one of the menuki. The other menuki has been swindled out so I cannot comment on that one. There is also a stamp on the seppa against the habaki that I'll include here for interest. I'll post the entire sword and suite of photos in the "Show us your high quality gunto" thread when I can find the right Round Tuit. BaZZa.
    1 point
  31. Yanagawa Seishin (or Shōshin). Morita-san mentioned in his other post that this was the same person as Yanagawa Useishin (or Ushōshin), but he speculated that Seishin started adding the 右 to his name later in life to signify some life event (in this case, having returned from the war).
    1 point
  32. This is the subject on which unfortunately much needs to be said, yet nothing is being said. Japanese nihonto experts are the sole exception in the whole world to claim the ability to suddenly reconstruct the detailed biographies of people who lived 700 years with no help of either contemporary documents or signatures. The defense is that "such biography makes sense" and "it explains the style". The drawbacks are however mostly three in nature: a. Destruction of later generation's signatures as the work is now being reattributed to the first generation. I just finished working with late Nambokucho Norishige school daito, and its amazing how many clearly Norishige inspired oshigata you find in old books, with dozens of names from Echigo, Etchu and Echizen. All signed. Yet today finding a single Echizen Chogi or shodai Momokawa is like a miracle. They exist only in old kantei tables as dozens for Etchu Tametsugu, while today essentially only three smiths in the whole school are papered to - Norishige, Etchu Tametsugu, Sanekage. Sometimes one sees Yasunobu. Kinju,Tomoshige are paperable because they are not strictly Norishige-like, same goes for some early Uda. In Shizu the problem is worse to the extent that a huge diversity of signatures just drops into the scene as one approaches Oei and the difference in style is such that the chances to paper as "genious Shizu" or even Sadamune becomes nil. Everything else is signatureless - yet Nanmbokucho Shizu and Yamato Shizu greatly exceed in number Naoe Shizu examples. One of the largest schools of the period, being attributed to a single person. Well, maybe now with the whole TWO generations. b. Japanese being Japanese, eventually the better works despite the late sugata will still get attributed to the "genius shodai". And then one wonders why Yukimitsu has 5-7cm long kissaki. This greatly confuses the learning, dating and eventually undermines the belief in papers, since a lot of such attributions do not hold when repapered. But in the mean time the experts collect a lot of fees from those seeking to find out if their blade can by any chance be the real genius and not some nidai shmuck. c. In the end the practice reinforces the belief in often artificially constructed lineages and relations. In no small part Norishige was traditionally sidelined since he has no clear lineage, and from a province filled at the time with heretics and semi-criminals. With Shizu the situation is even more bizarre - as despite the fact that Yamato is the only school which early Soshu can be mistaken with, only Awataguchi roots of Soshu are canonically accepted. Sure, someone from Yamato must have came to Kamakura - but I doubt it was to study as much as he was summoned to teach. Soshu hamon in nie, masame in ha, mokume sandwiched between masame in ha and at the mune - much of it bears witness of Yamato influence. It can be that not Kaneuji came to Kamakura, but Kanenaga, or Kaneyuki, or even Hosho Sadamune if he existed - and founded Soshu with the later generations of Awataguchi. Yet the possibility is destroyed by people claiming to be capable of nearly always (save some embarassments like ko uda) attributing a blade precisely to a person with absolutely no signatures, no clear contemporary records etc. etc. etc. to back it up. Kirill R.
    1 point
  33. I believe they are Dha swords from Southeast Asia, Thailand, Burma etc.
    1 point
  34. My grandfather fought with the ghurka in WW2 He had many (or all) in his regiment if I remember correctly. He told me there was no better fighting force than the ghurka. He was regimental sergeant major.NCO I think he as with all combatants was a hero ,well he certainly was to me anyway. I remember his Ghurka knife which he enjoyed showing us. I think he kept in contact with his Ghurka 2nd until he died. The war ,the japs couldn't get him but Cancer did. To end on a good note he always wanted his own pub to run and he ended up with three .He enjoyed his return to relative normality post War and that's got to be worth something.
    1 point
  35. Those mei still dont look right and if they dont do some false rusting you can tell by a passing eyeballing. Wonder what the hada and hamon on those look like and if they actually use any of the correct materials/metal. I'm sure they didn't mimic the technique but you wouldn't be able to tell that without cutting it in half I suppose. The nakago filing as well looks shallow or something, cant tell if they got the file design fully correct. Either way....stop it China.
    1 point
  36. Last update for today, I promise: a few mobile phone shots that I've did of the blade. Hope they shows what was asked for.
    1 point
  37. Thanks for the replies! I've tried various picture styles. The first attached picture was done with the scanner *edit* sending the message throws them out of order. The pic showing the tip from both sides was taken with the scanner *edit* whereas the others were done with the camera. When I lay the blade on its back the (roughly measured, as far as I could do) highest open point under it was 18mm until blade started again. I think this is what was meant with Sori? Jigane is very tough to picture, easier visible with the Scanner. But what the Scanner shows isn't really visible in reality, so not sure this would be helpful?
    1 point
  38. Yes Kanenaga The mei, especially the way 'naga' is cut looks similar to a Kanenaga from Mino/Izumi province late Muromachi era Hope that helps
    1 point
  39. Hi Bruce, If you count the petals on the illustration "Toyotomi" Kamon and the ones of yours, there is a distinct difference.
    1 point
  40. For the record: I have entertained this whole discussion because we are a discussion forum. And what is posted is in the interests of collecting. I don’t delete what I don’t agree with, and keep what I do. That said, it would be great if we could all collect top swords only. Ubu swords in great condition, signed and polished. But that’s not reality in this hobby. The majority of us will strive for that, but end up with suriage Shinto or average swords in average condition. And as long as we don’t let our ambitions stay there, and at least study better swords, that is fine. As long as you enjoy your collection, That is just fine. As long as we do no harm to swords we come across, that is just fine. As long as we respect the culture and history of what we are collecting, that is just fine. This is not an either/or situation. Strive for the swords Ray advocates, but collect what you are able to and never feel embarrassed of what you own. This forum will never become elitist or exclusionary. The fact that many members here started out with nothing and ended up with fine papered swords means we are doing something right. Unless I win the lottery, a juyo isn’t in my future. But I enjoy what I own and see some beauty in all of them. Discussion and advice on how to collect is welcome. But let me stress that denigrating anyone or insulting them because of their collecting choices is a fast way out of here.
    1 point
  41. I’m curious Rayhan, I'm not asking your salary or anything, but what do you do for a living? I see some people here, not just you, who seem to buy a new sword every week/month when I struggle to finish the month and can only use lay off payments. No offense meant, but your words remind me of the words of politicians who’ve been living in a sphere so far off that of common, average people that they clearly lose the ties to reality. Your opinions are only sound if you can afford the type of swords you’re mentioning. Art (provided that even exists as I don’t believe in art but just in craft) comes in many forms and at every price. A guy who will collect a page from a comic book artist he likes and paid a few hundred dollars for will probably Be as happy as the guy who just bought a Picasso. Actually, he’ll probably be even more happy because the Picasso buyer will probably put the Picasso in a safe and consider it as an investment (of course, who, with a sane mind could ever consider a Picasso on his wall except if he wants to barf everyday... in case you haven’t understood I HATE modern art ) Should this mean that the regular joe be prevented from his pleasures just because he can’t afford the best?
    1 point
  42. Ray, Hope my post did not come across as criticism. I genuinely wanted to speak for others out there in a similar situation, and find out if there is a place for them/us. I think it is precisely because I stay firmly grounded that my Jen situation is always under control. Reality guides my purchases. But I think I speak for many. And of course you are allowed your (valid) opinion as long as it remains a civil discussion. I enjoy reading these posts. But I speak for the average guy out there too. As for the lovely Aizu katana, it remains my only papered sword. It, and a wonderful katakiriha zukuri waki by Tsuguhira from Darcy remain my 2 favorite and best swords. I treasure them. When I typed above, I specifically mentioned really good swords, meaning stuff like Ichimonji and Aoe etc etc. those that go for $20k+ No, I will never sell these swords. No matter what happens. They are not investments or money storage. They are things that make me happy.
    1 point
  43. Are we construing value strictly as investment/resale or value in terms of history and personal enjoyment? They all intersect but value and Japanese swords is a far more complex topic than broad black & white statements on the subject. While I greatly enjoy these topics the underlying message of "everything that doesn't meet X criteria is total crap" gets old quick for those not initiated in the highest levels of collecting. If one person is collecting large bars of fine gold and saying to other people who are collecting smaller 1oz bars that these small bars are totally worthless and a waste of time who is correct? They are both fine quality gold, just different variations of it.
    1 point
  44. Hello. You have to remember that its easy to put everything in boxes and there are exceptions. You will find long swords from the Muromachi period that are O-suriage mumei. You will find good swords from the Muromachi period that are mumei and also signed swords that are mass produced low quality. Look at a sword and judge it for yourself
    1 point
  45. I think you nailed it JP. Neil (IJASWORDS) just dug out an article from JSSUS that included a letter from a WWII era polisher to Robert Gregory. In it, he says swords were bundled and sent to an Army warehouse in Tokyo and distributed to the Army and Navy clubs for sale! A couple of other points from the letter: 1. NCO blades were "air" cooled, not water or oil 2. Custom orders were made to fit the height of the buyer, and wakizashi were used along with every other length
    1 point
  46. 3rd Yatsushiro Jingo, TBH Paper. Much better in Hand, deep black glossy steel, impressive Tsuchime.
    1 point
  47. Roger d. Seems like I am following you around the forums. There is a legend that a giant catfish causes earth quakes - from Wikipedia: "In Japanese mythology, the Namazu (鯰) or Ōnamazu (大鯰) is a giant catfish who causes earthquakes. He lives in the mud under the islands of Japan and is guarded by the god Kashima who restrains the catfish with a stone. When Kashima lets his guard fall, Namazu thrashes about, causing violent earthquakes". Old, I can remember when the milkman came to the house with a horse cart and we got letters delivered twice a day. And don't get me started on the size of chocolate Wagon Wheels they were twice the size for 6 pence! I do laugh at the tech nerds who say without the internet we would go back to the stoneage- ever hear of the sixties and seventies, no computers, no internet, no mobile phones and Dad went off to work and mum stayed at home and everyone owned their own home. What went wrong?
    1 point
  48. Whoa Baldi...Fifteen grand...Got to hand it to you, 800 miles in a Nissan Frontier, steering wheel in one hand, a bottle of Geritol in the other, pocket full of Alibaba cash to boot. Yee Haw... My guess is you paid less than $2000 for the sword and more power to you if so. We all hope find to such a bargain. Also, for creating a bit of a controversy drawing attention to the sword. Certainly you can understand, ( Which I'm quite sure you do) members questioning the legitimacy of the sword. Shin-gunto koshirae, rather mediocre tsuba and seppa, crude Kikusui mon, and not that impressive tsuka from what I can see. Never the less, the very best luck with your find and "No" I won't take your $5,000 bet !! Good luck, Dave M.
    0 points
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