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Tanegashima mei


Brian

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Well..after trying in vain not to spend any money and reduce my increasing debt, I got a call from someone locally who found me online and had a tanegashima for sale. Of course, the chances of finding one in South Africa are minute, and especially out of the woodwork.

So after debating about it, the possibility that his wealthy boss would have bought it because it was "neat" and would have been stuck on a wall for decoration..I decided it had to have a new and better home. So now I have my second one.

Will post about it in the relevant section once I complete some cleaning.

But in the meantime, I wanted to try and translate the found mei. This is a lightly cut/scratched one. I have no doubt it is original, but it is lightly cut and filled in either with laquer or rust. Hard to clean. A soft brass brush is helping. Should be able to make out most of it for now.

So if anyone can assist wth a translation and idea of date, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

There are 2 sections of kanji. Upper section, and then another section below the pan, and then 2 final kanji that are probably the mei?

Hopefully someone can make it out. Thanks in advance.

 

Brian

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Niju Makibari is double-layer (two twists), Brian.

 

Kunitomo is the province and Kyubei is the gunsmith family name. Below that is the individual.

 

Congratulations on the new addition. Looking forward to pictures! :

 

(will check my books for any possible date when I get back to Japan next week)

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Thanks Piers, that clears up a lot.

Going to take pics to post. This one is quite nice, but as is always my luck, the bisen is solid and not moving even with oiling. And the ramrod makes it to just after the touch hole...so not quite loaded..but not open either.

Nice that the ama-ooi is complete as is the pan cover and original pin, but sadly missing the trigger guard that was once present. That is going to be the project.

Now just need to confirm that name and estimated date. Thanks for the help folks.

 

Brian

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Well..this is interesting...

http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/nmb/ ... =15&t=6670

Is this the same smith as Ron's maker?

The gun looks very similar, except it had a trigger guard. I would like to see more pics of Ron's gun if possible, and will post pics of mine.

Nice co-incidence. Maybe not carved by the same hand, but definitely the same inscription. Mine on the left, and Ron's on the right.

 

Brian

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Dear Brian,

Thought I'd better get this posted before you're off to bed. Congratulations on the new acquisition. Two make a collection you know ! I shall be interested to see if Piers can come up with a date for when the Kyubei family were producing firearms. I note slight differences in the Mei, so perhaps father and son ? Anyways I attach a series of photos of my gun, ... and look forward to seeing yours posted.

... Ron Watson

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Well, haven't had a chance to take too many pics as the gun is still disassembled awaiting attempts to uncrew the bisen. But here are a few pics I just took.

Interesting that even though they appear to be by the same maker/family, the 2 guns are very different in features.

Mine had a trigger guard, which is missing and will need to be remade. If anyone has any pics of detatched guards so that I can see the attachment points, it would be appreciated.

 

My gun does have the silver insert in the front sight.

Here are finally some pics of an original ama-ooi detatched, front and back. This one had the rear "vertical" guard too.

 

Decorations are quite different. Perhaps the well done mixed metal inlay was done later. Prefer them plain, but this one isn't badly done.

The flash hole appears large, but tapers rapidly to a small flash hole. Not redone at all.

It has 3 pins holding the barrel on, and one barrel ring.

 

Stock is good condition, with no missing pieces. It had a very old ramrod, but it is very aged metal, and since I am sure they didn't use metal rods, I expect it is a replacement for the original wooden one that I will make.

 

Rear sight is an interesting shape.

I like the stamping on the lock plate. I expect these were outsourced to a maker. Can anyone identify or read the stamp on the plate? How often to these plates have markings?

 

Another interesting thing is the sear itself, which seems to pivot. There is a protruding bit that revolves as the frizzen is cocked against it, and the sear emerges and holds the frizzen. You can make it out in the one pic. Common? Reason?

The frizzen looks bent, I think it has to be much further down/forwards. Not sure of the exact material they are made from, and if it can be bent safely or if it risks snapping. Does anyone know the material and type, and if heat will help? Thanks.

 

Brian

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Dear Brian,

Your gun and mine seem to share from what I see so far only the family name Kubei or Kyubei. It is my contention that due to the similarities in signatures ( too many coincidences ) that they probably were made by father and son. Your gun has enough of the same traits as SAKAI makers that it would be most likely be considered a Sakai example. Examples of the traits I see : The shape of the butt, ... the large dougane encircling the breach, ... the top pinned lock, ... the round protrusion on top of the main spring ( Oh, I'm sure the Japanese have some special name for this feature but I do not know it nor care to, but perhaps Piers does and for those stuck on Japanese terms can provide it ) ... the Serpentine ( or as you are referring to it as a frizzen ... in Japanese the term is hibasami ) although rarely a definitive clue is identical to the sakai guns .... the rear sight again appears on sakai guns ( as well as other areas however ) ... the revolving sear feature that you describe I have only noted on Sakai guns. As the serpentine is cocked the bottom of the serpentine engages the botton protrusion forcing the sear to revolve out to engage the top of the serpentine arm. The one thing that Sakai guns generally have as an identifying feature is a poppy-shaped muzzle ( a photo of the muzzle of your gun would be helpful ). Now having said that about the muzzles being poppy-shaped this AGAIN is not an absolute as many Sakai guns do not have the poppy-shaped muzzle. Please refer to Sugawa's book The Japanese Matchlock for an example close to your gun in many respects ... page 16 top example. Also note he says, " No. 1 is a perfect example of the Sakai style ( bearing the Kunitomo name ). " As a matter of fact : Kunitomo Kyubei Yasumine.

 

The lock of your gun bears a Kakihan, and to me at least this is often a sign of quality. Only one of my Tanegashima bears a Kakihan on the lock. Photo of mine attached. This was kindly translated by Morita san ... perhaps he can/will do the same for yours. Mine says : Hiroyoshi or Takayoshi.

 

The serpentine on your gun is of brass, and although it can be bent slightly to re-align it properly, ... one must be very careful as it can snap. Since you have a resident gunsmith where you work, ... I would ask him to do this as he may or may not want to apply heat. I would also caution as I have in previous threads that buggering around with the bizen is not necessary and may well cause damage. I should also add that assigning Tanegashima ( Japanese Matchlocks ) is not only difficult at times ( " many times ", would be better put ), ... but given the transient behaviour of the gunsmiths of the later Edo period, we often find two completely different styles incorporated into one gun ... making a definitive assignment as to what is a Winchester and what is a Remington impossible. Your gun appears to be nearly pure Sakai, ... and mine to me at least appears to be pure Kunitomo and yet the guns are related by maker ... of that there is little doubt.

 

I would say that the quality and style of the barrel decoration is original and not a later addition. All in all from what I see a truly wonderful example of the Japanese Matchlock. You should be most pleased. I look forward to seeing photos of the complete gun ( but especially the MUZZLE ).

 

... Ron Watson

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Thank you Ron, very informative. Please disragard my use of frizzen, that should of course be serpentine. Frizzen is the front part of the flintlock mechanism of course.

Here is a quick shot of the barrel. Normal slightly swamped shape and the front sight has the silver insert.

In this case I want the bisen out because a ramrod stops short of the flash hole, but too far for a bullet to be present. Need to see if the barrel has something jammed down it or what the obstruction is. Removing the bisen is the only way, and I like my guns to be functional.

Here is a complete pic from the seller. Will take better ones once I assemble it.

 

Brian

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Dear Brian,

The swamped barrel with the silver insert is identical to my example ... see my photograph. I should have mentioned, ... the ramrod is almost certainly a replacement. Although some Tanegashima had iron ramrods ( the Yonezawa in particular ) it was something of a aberrant to find it otherwise. Yours should be wooden ( an oak preferably ). Regarding the obstruction at the bottom of the barrel, ... have you thought about using a gun worm to pull the obstruction up and out ( if wad and powder ) or a wood screw on the end of a rod to force into and pull out a musket ball if one of these inadvertently got dropped down the barrel ? I have had occasion to use both with success. You do as you please with the bizen. All I was trying to convey ( for everyone's reading ) was that it is not really necessary and may cause damage. Good luck, ... and I think you bought yourself a fine example.

 

By the way the opening just ahead of the sort of oval inletting on the bottom of your gun was for the attachment of a brass ring often seen on Japanese Matchlocks for the attachment of any type of accoutrement ( perhaps a vent pick ). See photograph attached.

 

In about a week my grandson will be out ( if no one jumps in with a photo in the meantime ) of the inlet oval area which held one end of the trigger guard ( Yuojintetsu ... for those whom insist on obscure Japanese terminology ) and a complete photo of the style of trigger guard. You should easily be able to fashion a decent facsimile from a piece of brass rod usually 3/16 ( about 5mm ) diameter. The difficult part in your case is that the oval inlet contained a brass liner ... not so easy to duplicate but NOT IMPOSSIBLE. I can do an article on how to make one or instruct you by PM if necessary. I am at your disposal ... not a good word ( probably a lot of readers would like to dispose of me ).

 

... Ron Watson

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Ron,

The reason I think it isn't a ball or wad is that the metal rod makes a decent metallic clink at the bottom, not the duller thud I would expect from softer lead or wadding. It's more of a gut feel. Best would be to find a doctor with a nice long thin camera....but you never know where those have been :rotfl:

I'm taking it slowly anyways.

Looking forward to trigger guard pics. The front looks like it takes a cross pin (present) but not sure of the rear attachment. Has some brass block in there with a slight ledge I think. Will fabricate the ring and mount as I have my other one to copy.

Must measure the caliber, but I suspect about the same as my last one.

 

Brian

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Brian, I would hazard a guess that the missing trigger-guard had the back end shaped with a hook that fitted into the elongated slot behind the trigger and hooked onto the brass inset. The front end would terminate in an oval plate to fit the recess in the woodwork with an extension on top with a hole for a retaining pin that went through the stock. So to fit it you would hook the back end in place and then push the front end into its location and fasten it with a pin. I believe it was not uncommon for good Kunitomo barrels to be sent off to be stocked in Sakai as the woodwork and brass mounts were considered better quality.

Ian Bottomley

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Thank you Ian, makes perfect sense.

I am starting to build up a mental picture of gun schools/smiths that would focus on a particular element such as barrels or locks, and perhaps there were retailers or merchants that would have a gun made up from various parts and send them to other workshops to be completed.

Maybe I am far off the mark, but this custom gunmaking is a logical progression when one person cannot do all the work. So you would have a good barrel from X family, and perhaps a lock from Y....then send the whole thing off to Z to be assembled.

Or a merchant would have stock of different parts and assemble them into one gun depending on the order.

It's an interesting theory, and somewhat similar to what happens with swords, so seems logical. This would explain totally different guns with similar inscriptions but different features.

 

Brian

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A friend bought a tanegashima 2 weeks ago on auction here (don't know how these are suddenly popping out of the woodwork here) and wish I had known about it. It is very similar to mine, and complete except for a missing pan cover and ama-ooi.

I took the opportunity to take out the trigger guard on his to see how they attach and took a few pics. Maybe these will help someone out later who needs to make one. Interesting that it looks like it would pop right into my one. I didn't get to check for a signature, but I suspect it is related to mine.

I can now see that the back of the guard has a little stud/projection that fits into the piece of brass in the rear trigger guard hole (still present on mine) and then the front clips in and is held by the vertical pin with cross pin.

 

Here are some pics of the trigger guard and attachment pin. I have my work cut out for me...going to have to source some brass rod first.

I wonder if parts like trigger guards are to be found in Japan? Piers....any idea?

 

Brian

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Dear Brian,

I caution you, ... your trigger guard does not necessarily attach as per the way your friends trigger guard attaches ( forward part of trigger guard in the oval section ), although it may and probably does. I will send some photos this weekend to clarify what I mean. It is quite possible it does but there were two separate ways of utilizing that oval or egg shaped opening ... you can be the judge of how you want to attach. It will not hurt to show our other readers these two methods anyway. The more I look at the oval on your gun the more I think it was utilized the way your friends trigger guard is made. In the meantime locate some 5 mm brass rod.

 

... Ron Watson

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Apologies for the delay in replying and thanks for Brian's nudge. Heavily jet-lagged, and still recovering after helping set a new Guinness World Record on Sunday in Kyushu for the greatest number of matchlock/Hackbut/Arquebus being fired in a single broadside.

 

As Koichi Moriyama San (aka Nobody) said about the name of this smith in the Kunitomo Kyubei line: "The last part of the mei is 恭峯. But I do not know its correct reading. Kyoho, Takamine, Tadamine, or ….???

 

Regardless of how the smith wanted people to read his name, we can recognize/transcribe it, and there is a smith with this name in the family line of Kyubei, one of the big smith lines at Kunitomo. They branched away at some early stage from the 国友藤太郎Kunitomo Totaro/Fujitaro smith family. The first/founding smith of the new line was simply Kunitomo Kyubei and there is a record of a dated gun of Genna 8 (1623). His successors took a further personal name, and seventh in the line is your (You and Ron's) smith. A 巻張 二匁筒 'Makibari Ni Monme zutsu' gun made by him is inscribed 九兵衛 子孫 'Kyubei Shison', and dated simply 天保 'Tempo' (1830-1844).

 

Many of the Kyubei smiths inscribed their barrels with Kyubei Shison, ie descendant of Kyubei. The last recorded name in the line made a gun dated Ansei 2 (1856).

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:clap: :clap: :clap:

:thanks:

Thank you Piers, that clears that one up nicely. So likely 1830's. Going to tackle the trigger guard this weekend.

So in the matchlock world in Japan, and knowing that a lot of guns discovered unregistered have the barrels destroyed and the rest of the parts sold off...how available are parts for matchlocks over there, such as trigger guards, serpentines etc etc? Just curious. It must be like all the koshirae around with blades that have been cut?

 

Brian

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