How Old?

Good Afternoon

I often marvel at the standard of photography exhibited on this board, as a good picture is enjoyable to view and easier to learn from. I'm aware also of the numerous articles that have been posted on this very subject.

With this in mind, I've been trying to improve my limited photographic skills for the last couple of hours, choosing as a subject a military mounted sword.

The nakago is much easier to capture than the blade so I'm posting this first. 2 mekugi-ana, yasurime pattern takanoha with futatsu -hi both sides. It is a signed blade and I will try to get a decent picture of that later. Does anyone have any thoughts on the age of this sword? difficult from just the one picture and I'm not even too sure myself.

Mick

Hi Mick.

You wouldn't call the yasurime higaki then? (Which would point us toward Mino).

All the best.

Hi Geraint

it may be your eyes are a lot better than mine but I think the Takanoha description is correct. Higaki refers to a cross hatching which as you say is seen on some Mino work and very specifically on Yamato Hosho but I cant see that effect here.

Best Regards

Paul

Mick,

There are not enough photons hitting your camera's image sensor. Please increase the exposure time or use brighter lights. If the other side of the nakago is signed, it would take a lot of the guess work out of dating the sword. Also, please remove the sword from the scabbard and remove the habaki from the sword. Pictures of the overall shape of the bare blade, and close up pictures of the area under the habaki and of the tip will help greatly as well.

Regards,

Hoanh

Shinto - 300 years, and now time to buy my super loto ticket

Hi!

I will hazard a guess. There seems to be two types of oxidation on the nakago. Old blackish one and newer reddish one.

So, based on the tone of blackness in the older oxidation, I say 1400 and something. Maybe early 15, but more likely 14.

Winner gets the red wine bottle?? :-)

Ps: if the above should happen to be right-ish its more luck than knowledge, but its still my honest guess.

19th century.

KM

Hi Paul.

Saved the image and zoomed in a bit, perhaps it is the image quality but around the mekugi ana?

All the best

Thanks Geraint, I thought I was probably missing something. From the few examples of Hagaki I have seen I think it is more obvious and controlled and would be more clearly seen over the whole surface, but as I say I have only seen a small number.

Can I also ask a favour from those posting opinions and suggestions? It isnt a new request and has often appeared before but when expressing a view could posters also say why they have reached the conclusion they have?

Saying something is koto, shinto 14th, 19th or 20th century offers little help to those trying to learn unless you say why you think it.

Regarding this piece I admire the confidence of those that have made such confident bids based on a not too clear image of a nakago. I would love to see more images of the whole blade before jumping to any conclusion.

regards

Paul

Regarding this piece I admire the confidence of those that have made such confident bids based on a not too clear image of a nakago. I would love to see more images of the whole blade before jumping to any conclusion.

regards

100% in agreement with you, Paul. I think Jean was trying to make the same point with his facetious statement "and now time to buy my super loto ticket."

Hoanh

Yes, Hoanh

Does red rust form over black? Just a guess but maybe it got wet at some point?

Not wanting to offer an opinion on that one shot, but the red rust really needs attention.

The only thing that can be said for certain about the nakago is :

Ha agari kujiri, taka no ha file marks, two mekugi-ana close together which look drilled rather than punched, two hi groves of which cannot be seen how long they extend and a dark patina with red rust spots of which cannot be said in my opinion it is any older than 19th century shinshinto work.

That is about it.

And indeed the rust should be taken care of.

KM

You can also see that nakago looks to be long and there is no (or very little) sori. Like others I would like to see more pictures of the sword before saying anything (and even then my guess won't matter much...).

Thank you all for your thoughts. The image is poor but if I'd waited to get a better shot it would probably never have been posted. I am constantly learning but will try to address some of the points made.

Yes, haagari kurijiri.

Yasurime, uniform "V" shape - feather like pointing towards habaki.

Futasuji-hi extends full length of blade, well executed.

An interesting feature of this blade which is 67.5cm long, is that it has mitsu-mune.

I,ve had it now for about two years. When I first withdrew the sword from it's saya, the first thought that struck me was "good gendaito" this fleeting thought lasted seconds almost instantly changing to shinshinto. It was a struggle to remove the tsuka but when I did, I was of the opinion that shinshinto was correct. I was sure then, I'm not so sure now.

I'll post more details as and when I get the opportunity, this might be a little while as other things are having to take priority at the moment.

Many Thanks

Mick

And another

Better images but we still would like images of :

The full blade

Boshi

Full nakago close-up.

That might seriously help in the age debate.

The nakago-ana look punched now. different than on your first image.

KM

That is a gorgeous hamon.

Hoah

I've tried taking your advice but must admit the photon bit went way over my head. I had enough difficulty with a Box Brownie. Something I've learned from this is that I should have taken all the pictures I required first, then presented them. I can appreciate that posting piecemeal is not good for study purposes. These are my latest offerings and will probably be my last as I don't think I can improve upon them. Also, I've taken on board the points made concerning rust.

Regards

Mick

I've just tried to post pictures of the full length, they were rejected due to size issues - I've substituted these.

Mick

Isn't this Suzuki Munehide 宗榮, a shinto smith from Harima, circa Enpo (~1672)?

Blade has been remounted a few times...Looks Shinto all day long.....

Shinto - 300 years, and now time to buy my super loto ticket

By Jove, and I did not even win at the super loto

Yup ! Not 19th century as I first though with the earlier small image of only the nakago.

Nice !

Jean, do not feel bad about the lotto. No one wins apparently and the so called winners in the media are all actors.

KM

Mick,

Your sword seems to be very nice and well-made, but the mei is sketchy. I have looked up on the internet and found quite a few (papered) examples, one of which is posted here for comparison (http://www.sanmei.com/contents/media/S6 ... PUP_E.html). Regardless of whether the mei is valid or not, it is a nice sword. Congrats!

Regards,

Hoanh

Mei is a little different but the nakago shape, finish, and color is about the same...This smith seems to have a some variety to his signature as well; all things considered, I wouldn't be surprised if the mei is good...

Chris

Thanks very much indeed - appreciated. If I'd posted clearer pictures initially I'm sure that you would have responded sooner.

Hoanh

Thanks also, I'll spend much time comparing the two!

I've not forgotten that this is a military mounted sword carried into battle not that long ago. So I will post pictures of the mounts ( should be easier ) sometime next week.

Thank you all for your responses.

Mick

The early owners of this sword could never have imagined that it would be 300 years later that it would be taken into it's final battle. I believe these last mountings, damaged as they are, are part of it's long history. Field repairs or postwar neglect?

Regarding repairs, I once read an account of a Japanese officer on board a ship that was hit by a bomb and sunk. He swam to shore but had to discard his sword. Having been safely ashore for several days, one of his n.c.o's made several attempts to retrieve the sword from the seabed and finally succeeded. He repaired it, rebound the hilt and returned it to the officer.

I believe the sword that I have once had something pinned to the hilt, possibly a small plaque. Maybe a surrender tag too as there are remnants of old string on the ring of the ashi.

Mick

These too-

Looks like tsuka is broken. Maybe a postwar job.