Double leather saya?

[RussellM]

Gents, has anyone ever encountered a sword with two leather covers on the saya? If so, would this be unusual or often seen? Many thanks.

 

Russ

[Clive Sinclaire]

I have seen this once before. The sword in question was a Bizen Norimitsu and under the two foul-weather leather saya was a beautifully black lacquered inro style saya. Unfortunately the saya had been broken and there were several splints holding it together. The 2 leather saya gave additional support to what I am convinced was a field repair. Unforunately the Norimitsu blade has ha-giri and so overall the sword is in rather a distressed condition. I was given this by an old school chum, whose uncle had acquired it in the Burma camapaign. When I first saw the repair I was struck by the thought that I was almost certainly the first to see it since the owner, over 60 years earlier! I now keep it as one might a "rescue" sword of no value but which has now been honourably retired!

Clive Sinclaire

[RussellM]

Hello Clive!

 

Many thanks for your most interesting reply! I had wondered whether the double layer might have been to add strength or to add extra protection to a fine saya, so I appreciate your thoughts. I saw a sword with this feature some time ago, and from memory it was an Army Officers shin-gunto, also with the leather hood. At the time I didn't notice the double leather scabbard but talking to the chap who owns it recently, he reminded me of it. It is one of three swords I am hoping to buy from him in the future when he is ready to sell. I will try and get some further info - I do not think he has removed the leather to view the scabbard, and I'm not sure if this is easily done, or recommended.

 

Do you have any pics of your double leather and saya that you could show? Is it easy to remove the coverings from the saya or would it be un-wise to do so? Thanks!

 

Kind regards

 

Russ

[Clive Sinclaire]

Hello Russ

I have a couple of pictures, 1) the splint and 2) the lacquered saya revealed.

I cut the leather with a razor blade along the seam so that it might be possible to replace if necessary. I'll send these as PM as I am having difficulty posting them here.

Clive Sinclaire

[george trotter]

Russell,

about removing the leather saya cover...

If everything looks sound, there is no need to.

If the gunto saya is the type that has a ishidzuki and a semegane on the lower end, then it is not adviseable to try to slip it over these unless the saya cover is supple and "roomy".

If the saya thread is fragile or rotten you can carefully open up the seam down the scabbard edge and lift scabbard out. When re-stitching, pick out the broken threads...use 2 needles and sew back up in a "figure-eight" motion by crisscrossing through the same hole as you go.

If the saya is lacquer with parallel sides, it should slide out the top with some gentle persuasion.

 

There are probably also other options.

regards,

George.

[RussellM]

Hi Clive - many thanks indeed. Email sent.

 

Hello George, thankyou for your comments and advice. I'm not one that usually likes to mess with these things, preferring to leave them 'as found'. If/when I get the sword, I'll only remove it if it looks like it can be done without un-stitching or cutting. It would be nice to get a look at the saya, but perhaps it would be wiser to leave it alone, and wonder!

 

Has anyone else encountered double leather covers? Any other thoughts?

 

Thanks gents - very much appreciated.

 

Kind regards

 

Russ

[george trotter]

Hi Russell...yes, leave as is if possible. The closest I have come to double cover has been a scabbard with double thickness of leather over the top third of the scabbard, and another with a double layer on the botton third. I'd say they were done because of damage/wear to the suspension/press stud area or the tip of the chape area...field repairs most likely as the sewing was hand done.

On a similar theme I have seen two leather covered saya with "D" ring sewn to botton end, on back-ridge seam. These indicate that they were for mounting over the shoulder (carrying on back). This is verified as one of these swords was collected in Bougainville Island (near Guadalcanal Is.) after an ambush of a Japanese army patrol on a jungle track. While searching the dead for papers, this sword was found slung over an officer's back, and was only apparent when his body was rolled over (apologies to our Nihonjin no members). I might add that this sword was by Shodai Kawachi no Kami Kunisuke... buke-zukure mounts with excellent Goto fittings. The old soldier who showed it to me on Bougainville in 1976 had let it rust, so I suppose now, 32 years later, it is ruined....terrible climate there for swords.

Regards,

George.

[RussellM]

Thankyou George - interesting story. I wonder where all these swords are now?

 

http://www.ina.fr/histoire-et-conflits/ ... es.fr.html

 

Kind regards

 

Russ

[cabowen]

I have a 32" Yasukuni-to by Kajiyama Yasunori that came in its original gunto koshirae. The saya had three layers of leather at the bottom with two of them worn through from the tip no doubt dragging on the ground...It has a general's tassle. I often wonder about the cajones that fellow must have had to carry around a sword of that size....

 

By the way, this sword is illustrated in the Yasukuni-to book...it is also discussed by Kenji Mishina as the first gendai-to he ever polished.....