What do you make of this?

[chuck]

Ok, just for the sake of discussion:

 

I spotted this auction on eBay. The seller is one whose auctions I generally follow because they usually have what look to me to be higher quality pieces, and their auctions seem to fetch higher prices.

 

This auction is for a tsuba very similar to the one featured in the first post of the thread. There are differences, but it's the same basic design.

 

Is this one real, or a copy, and why? Show your work.

 

I'm learning a lot here. I think this one is real, and I want to see if I am right (and right for the correct reasons), or if I should stay the hell away from these things until I am better educated.

 

here's the auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/2666-J-P-Samurai-sw ... 4cef946f31

 

 

much thanks.

 

peace.

[IanB]

I blush with shame to admit that I have 'pinged' tsuba in the past. This despite the fact that I wouldn't really know a good tsuba from the bottom cut out of a bucket. It just gives you time to race through one's mind for suitable things to mutter when asked what your opinion is on somebody's treasure. Having said that, the equivalent of 'rim pinging' was in fact a profession on the railways in the UK. These guys were known as Wheel Tappers and used to march along a stationary train and tap each wheel rim with a special long-handled hammer. The resulting noise told the tapper whether or not the cast steel wheels had developed cracks and were dangerous.

Ian Bottomley

[estcrh]

Ok, just for the sake of discussion:

 

I spotted this auction on eBay. The seller is one whose auctions I generally follow because they usually have what look to me to be higher quality pieces, and their auctions seem to fetch higher prices.

 

This auction is for a tsuba very similar to the one featured in the first post of the thread. There are differences, but it's the same basic design.

 

Is this one real, or a copy, and why? Show your work.

 

I'm learning a lot here. I think this one is real, and I want to see if I am right (and right for the correct reasons), or if I should stay the hell away from these things until I am better educated.

 

here's the auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/2666-J-P-Samurai-sw ... 4cef946f31

 

 

much thanks.

 

peace.

Chuck, I am going to say that something does not seem right with this one, my first impression is that there does not appear to be any wear on it at all, hard to believe that its from the 1800s, second their seems to be some rough areas were there should not be any...I will see what someone else thinks, this is good practice though.

[chuck]

Tsuba Update:

 

Last night I sent the seller this message:

 

"Hi!

 

After I ordered this item from you, but before I received it, I was surfing around the internet and chanced upon a Nihonto forum site that happened to be discussing several tsubas that you had up for auction. I was shocked to discover that the consensus among the forum members was that all the tsubas being discussed were fake, that they were modern copies being represented as possibly being antiques.

 

I asked on the forum about the tsuba I had just purchaced. I was told that mine was likely to be a fake as well.

 

Unwilling to believe the word of some random person on the internet who hadn't actually seen and handled the tsuba, I took it today to Flying Cranes Gallery in New York City, who are experts in Japanese antiques. It was confirmed for me to my satisfaction that the tsuba you just sent me is, in fact, a modern copy.

 

I'm not saying this isn't a nice tsuba - it is, in fact, as reproductions go, a very nice one and I do have a use for it in a sword restoration project. So I would like to keep it.

 

However, it troubles me that you attempted to represent this tsuba as an antique, and that you have a number of other items up for bid which also are being represented as antiques which are most likely also modern copies.

 

This complicates the matter of leaving feedback. I want to see what your response is to this before I decide what to post. Please understand, I am not in any way angry or upset. Your service was in every other respects prompt and exemplary. I am, however, disappointed that this tsuba is not an actual antique, and that the wording of your eBay listings seems to me to allow you to sell items that are modern, while implying that they are antiques.

 

I will not post feedback until I read your response, and I can settle this issue in my mind. Thank you for the tsuba.

 

--Chuck-- "

 

This morning I received an apologetic note, and a full refund.

 

"Dear Mr.Charles B. Shupe,

 

Firstly I have to say, I will do my best for your satisfaction because you sounds kind US gentleman with your email.

 

Do you really belive that all my Tsubas are Fake or modern copy? It's so awful rumor damage for me. I can clearly say that all my Tsubas are Antique.

 

I think that If you post bad feedbacks for me, the people who have malice would show their smile, And If my store goes under, they would very laugh with their malices.

 

Can you let me know the URL of the Forum?? I will bring you proofs that my tsubas are antique With Experts Opinion.

 

I have to prove that my Tsubas are not modern copies, also have to banish such rumors.

 

Anyway I will repay all the money soon, and If you are satisfied with our opinions in the future, please make the payment again.

 

Sincerely yours"

 

Then, feeling guilty about keeping the tsuba, I sent back some money via paypal with this note:

 

"Hi again - since I am keeping the tsuba, I would feel guilty about accepting a full refund. Most reproduction tsubas (and, yes, it has been explained to me by an expert to my satisfaction that this tsuba is a reproduction) sell for about $100. So I am sending you this amount, plus $15 for shipping."

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, now - I don't have a problem sending a link to this thread to this seller, since it is a public forum. However, if anyone here has an objection to this let me know soon. Otherwise tonight I will reply to the seller, and perhaps he will join us here.

 

Thanks.

 

peace.

[sanjuro]

Chuck.

 

The tsuba you have posted for discussion IMHO seems to be cast. The finish has a graininess that indicates a casting and there are accretions, possibly casting flash in the acute intersections of the design. Where leaf overlaps tendril and also where the design intersects with the seppa dai at an acute angle, as much as a photograph can depict, there are rough areas that also indicate that this tsuba may be a casting. On the seppa dai the mei is not sharp enough or well enough defined to be either chisel cut or to be a match for the otherwise unworn surface upon which it appears.

 

My impression only....... Without prejudice.

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Chuck,

 

well it seems as far as your experience with this particular seller went you've received some satisfaction. :D

 

I would point out thought, to be fair, I don't believe anyone suggested all his tsuba are modern copies. Ilinked to 3 examples only. Never the less, I'd be fascinated to see what Mr Osawa offers as proof these particular examples are genuine antique pieces

 

The example you subsequently found on ebay from the other vendor, being essentially the same design, makes for a very good comparison with the cast version.

I would take the second example as being genuine.

[Basho12]

Just when you think you've got it figured out.... :?

 

I saw what I thought were casting bubbles on the seppa dai on the most recent example, and would have said "cast" if anyone had asked me. If Mr. Hallam believes this tsuba is not a cast piece I'd certainly trust his opinion over mine, so clearly I'm not seeing what I thought I was seeing.

[sanjuro]

Due respect to Ford, but I stick by my impression. (even if only for the sake of discussion). What makes this one genuine Ford, when there appear to be the anomolies as stated? I would appreciate your reasoning here, since I will probably learn something.

 

Hmmmmmm, Seems we have arrived back at the original theme of this thread.

[Brian]

I don't want this forum used as evidence in any matters between sellers and buyers. Everything here is an opinion, and to allow us that freedom to discuss items, the info has to be educational and not commercial.

Therefore I am extremely wary of this place being used as the "witness" in a fake vs real debate with a dealer. Especially when we all know pics are not ideal, and without these going to shinsa, how will we know the final outcome?

I suggest keeping the forum out of this, this is not why we are here. Suggest the dealer take it to a well known shop for verification.

This forum is not intended to be the final say in anything, and while we have very good opinions here, it does pose several complications if we are to be quoted. Please keep this in mind.

 

Brian

[chuck]

 

I would point out thought, to be fair, I don't believe anyone suggested all his tsuba are modern copies. Ilinked to 3 examples only. Never the less, I'd be fascinated to see what Mr Osawa offers as proof these particular examples are genuine antique pieces

 

[/url]

 

Ohhhhh!!! I was unclear here! Apologies! i meant that all the tsubas that were being discussed were copies, not everything that the seller was selling! I am sorry if that was not clear. and it wasn't. my bad.

 

I don't want this forum used as evidence in any matters between sellers and buyers. Everything here is an opinion, and to allow us that freedom to discuss items, the info has to be educational and not commercial.

Therefore I am extremely wary of this place being used as the "witness" in a fake vs real debate with a dealer. Especially when we all know pics are not ideal, and without these going to shinsa, how will we know the final outcome?

I suggest keeping the forum out of this, this is not why we are here. Suggest the dealer take it to a well known shop for verification.

This forum is not intended to be the final say in anything, and while we have very good opinions here, it does pose several complications if we are to be quoted. Please keep this in mind.

 

Brian

 

Which is why I took the tsuba to a dealer in New York for a second opinion.

 

I mean, you guys are great and all, but no-one here other than myself actually held it or handled it. I needed independent verification.

 

Of course, the gentleman in New York told me it was a fake for exactly the same reasons indicated here, but I think that carries more weight, since he was actually able to examine it directly.

 

trust, but verify.

 

peace.

[watsonmil]

I have been following this thread with some interest. It is fine and good to say not all of any particular dealer's inventory is fake and/or reproduction. Being a former dealer in antiques with antique weaponry as a specialty, ... I think I would like to enter this discussion at this point. It is possible to have a spurious example of almost any antique ( Nihonto related or otherwise ). The forgers are getting better all the time. With the advent of the Internet, ... one has access to a great deal of technical information as well as the many nuances that distinquish genuine from fake. There have always been forgers, ... but the technical knowledge was not always so readily available. Having said that, ... the dealer who is in possession of more than one example of ANYTHING that is a known fake/copy is in my opinion at least either very unknowledable, or more likely dishonest PERIOD. To patronize such dealers is to encourage the continued flagrant dissemination of these objects among collectors. They should be not only ostracized but reported to law enforcement even though law enforcement in most countries is as impotent as it is incompetent. If allowed to continue at the rate I am seeing with eBay sales as well as so called Antique websites, .... the market and MORE importantly the interest of the connoisseur as well as the neophite collector/student will eventually cease. I have personally seen where up and coming collectors have quit their hobby in disgust after being ripped off by unscrupulous collegues who think it great fun and profitable to handle such merchandise or worse having created it themselves. I might add that where MODERN COPIES or MODERN ORIGINALS are being produced often by very artistically talented individuals, .... these should also be either AVOIDED or at least well marked with a date of manufacture.

There is little doubt that I may well receive some flak over that last comment, ... but never-the-less it is my view that sooner or later these will be erroneously accepted as being genuine art or artifacts of the Samurai when in deed they are nothing of the sort. If one needs a set of fittings for their sword, ... what is wrong with buying ORIGINALS. They are available, ... and at the very least if even quite modest they will insure the intergrity of the sword as a whole. I have in my possession a very nice GIMEI sword signed Kanesada, .... bearing a long and probably genuine presentation inscription by a village to a member of the Matsudaira family. The fact it is GIMEI does NOT bother me in the least, ... but the SOB dealer ( a member and lurker on this site ) who sold me supposedly antique silver fittings which I used because I was trusting bothers me to this day. I was new at this game, .... and it very nearly led me to throw in the towel and quit. I'm glad I didn't, ... but I have never dealt with this individual again. Anyway, .... I hope at least one or two of you will heed my advice. It is written with no malice against an honest error, .... but honest errors in this field are few and far between. ... Ron Watson

[Ford Hallam]

Ron,

 

I can only wholeheartedly agree with every word you've written.

 

ford

[chuck]

I just heard back from the seller. Apparently he's been deceived as well, and asked me to post this:

 

Everyone, Sorry for the trouble. I think I have to learn more. Regarding the Kinai one I said, I will remove it and hold for learning for a while. Sorry I have to raise an objection to his opinion("All" your tsubas are fake modern copies),at least my tsubas came from different collectors separately(not from same market).

 

**But why my full name and private email has revealed?? I think it's personal infomation, Strongly hope they will be Deleted.**

 

As this seller has been nothing but up-front and decent with me, I'm willing to take him at his word, and accept that this has all been a mistake, and that he unknowingly bought a collection with some bad pieces.

 

Again, it was never claimed that all his tsuba were copies, just these particular examples. That was due to unclear phrasing on my part.

 

I don't think we've revealed the seller's eMail here, but according to his wishes, I will delete his name from my posts, and ask that any one else who has posted that information do the same.

 

thanks.

 

peace.

[chuck]

Due respect to Ford, but I stick by my impression. (even if only for the sake of discussion). What makes this one genuine Ford, when there appear to be the anomolies as stated? I would appreciate your reasoning here, since I will probably learn something.

 

Hmmmmmm, Seems we have arrived back at the original theme of this thread.

 

I am very curious as well, Ford. Why do you think this one is real?

 

thanks.

 

peace.

[Ford Hallam]

'cos they can't all be fake! ...can they?

 

Seriously though, I'll get back to this this week-end and see what I can describe...bit busy with real world metalwork right now. I mean, those fakes aren't going to make themselves, are they?

[cspage]

I would just like to take a brief moment to mention how impressed I am with the cool commonsense Brian exhibits in sensitive situations such as mentioned in his post above. Keeping a clear vision of the underlying mission of this forum, he inevitably comes through with concise reasoning and diplomatic verbiage to keep things on line and, thankfully, the Forum out of litigation.

 

Colin

[chuck]

'cos they can't all be fake! ...can they?

 

Well, they could, but that would require a wide ranging conspiracy involving, at the very least, Japanese historians, several museums, the shinsa organizations, various metalworkers, probably the yakuza and the Japanese government, and possibly space aliens. There are varying levels of fakeness, with some purposefully produced to look "more fake" in order to draw suspicion away from the "less fake" ones.

 

It is unlikely, but anything is possible.

 

peace.

[chuck]

Having figured (like a dummy), hey, I just got a free fake tsuba, I should go and get a real one!, I was about to bid high on this tsuba http://cgi.ebay.com/2634-J-P-sword-Edo- ... fresh=true

 

the seller is the same one from a page ago, the one that was selling the tsuba that Ford said he thought was an actual antique (and has not yet shared his reasons for claiming such!).

 

Ten minutes to go on the auction. To kill time, I'm checking the seller's completed auctions, and I notice this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0524106610

 

..and I'm like, hey, I've seen that before. Where?

 

It was here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5495&hilit=cast+steel

 

Compare in two different windows, if you like. It looks like the same basic cast, one with a "low-end" finish, and one with a "high-end" finish.

 

Good Lord!!! Is there no-one to be trusted??? I'm starting to think my ultra-paranoid conspiracy theory may be correct!!

 

Needless to say, I did not place my final bid for the bug tsuba. I don't think it's fake; it looks real to me. But damn, I just can't trust that it's real. Someone else can take that gamble.

 

I will no-longer buy tsuba from eBay again, ever. I'm done, done, done, finished.

 

Gah.

 

Well, this has been quite an education. I thank you all.

 

peace.

[Mark Green]

I think you did the right thing Chuck.

I would think that bug tsuba is cast. I think I have seen this exact one before, somewhere.

They sure are getting good.

I find it very hard to believe that these dealers don't know exactly what they are selling. With 99.9% of the world, knowing little, or nothing about tsuba, it is very easy.

 

With modern casting tecnology, it is very easy to make many copies of a nice period tsuba, then just sell one or two a year, so people forget.

If you know how to patina iron/steel, it is easy to add many years of false age to a cast tsuba.

With the above 'bug' tsuba, I would think the patina is 'too' nice to believe,

It does seem like a whole lot more of these tsuba are showing up these days. And, there seems to be a good bit of money being made.

There are still many real period tsuba for sale on ebay. I would think that the people selling real tsuba would try to band together to hit these casting tsuba dealers hard.

 

 

I just took a close look at all the tsuba the 'bug' tsuba guy has for sale. Hmmmmmm??? The swords look real enough.

[watsonmil]

Dear Chuck,

Please go back and re-read what I wrote on page 4. READ it carefully ! You see a dealer by having one or more fakes can completely ruin his reputation. Even if he/she should offer a genuine piece, .... trust has been lost. The benefit of eBay to these dealers is that there is always another sucker. They can plead ignorance, oh,.. so sorry a mistake. Please accept this as a gift ( some gift ), .... and I even return your money. Boy I nice guy right ! DEAL with a reputable dealer. Buy at a sword show, ... buy off the NMB ( mostly safe ). Stay the hell away from eBay UNLESS you know the dealer, ... and he has a return policy. Believing somehow the Japanese are more honest than any other when dealing with their own cultural artifacts is like believing the Queen of England never farts ! I've met AT LEAST AS MANY shady Japanese dealers as any other race. Race has nothing to do with honesty. Good luck with your collecting, .... just be very careful. This can and often is a high stakes game. It can and usually does bring out the worst in people, .... greed !

........ Regards, .... Ron Watson

[chuck]

Ok, here's what I think:

 

Based on the differences between this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Antique-katana-Ar ... 4aa15c8878

 

and this: http://cgi.ebay.com/2666-J-P-Samurai-sw ... 4cef946f31

 

And the differences between this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0524106610

 

and this: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5495&hilit=cast+steel

 

It looks to me like whoever is supplying these is offering a number of different finishes and flourishes depending on the dealer who is buying them. Are your clients in the $100 to $250 price range? Well, here's a more "beat up" looking tsuba. Do you expect your clients to spend $300 to $500+? Well then, here's the same tsuba with some gilding, some inlay, a "shakudo" plug, and a smoother finish.

 

Which means that it's likely that there won't even be two fakes exactly alike. Making it even more difficult for collecters to tell.

 

crap.

 

We all need to keep on our toes, even much more so than I imagined.

 

Anyone run across fake shinsa papers? Those can't be too hard to copy, and it would take this whole mess to yet another level of suck. I'm real curious here. Are we eventually going to need shinsa for the shinsa?

 

peace.

[watsonmil]

Dear Chuck,

At least two of the tsuba pictured could fool me, .... but I am NO expert on Tsuba or other fittings to be quite honest. It is VERY difficult when looking at photographs. It is much simpler, but not fool-proof when you have an example in hand. The forgeries are very very good. There are other members on this forum who can offer you much better advice in this field than I. YES, ... I have heard of forged Shinsa papers ( hearsay ), .... but I have not in person seen examples. More often a Japanese sword registration paper is shown with a sword to give the unlearned the impression that the sword is papered. That I have seen many times. Actual forged Shinsa papers I have not seen, ... but I would be surprised if they do not exist. Everything I am telling you seems so negative. Please do not think there is nothing but fakes. There are plenty of genuine items available, ... it is a matter ( unfortunately ) of having to get learned opinions until you aquire the necessary confidence. In some areas such as fittings I personally have to rely in many cases upon other people assisting me. Nothing to be ashamed of ... at least I hope not !

... Ron Watson

[moss]

Hello all,

 

Shinsa papers would be no problem at all to forge.

After all printing is a process of duplication in the true sense of the word

All that would be required would be the correct stock and a willingness to deceive.

Easier IMHO than forging tsuba.

 

Cheers Moss

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Chuck,

 

sorry about not clarifying my reasoning for saying that previous tsuba was imo genuine. I'll get to that asap but the usual end of month panic is keeping me preoccupied. :|

 

With regard to the items you've just listed I offer the following observations.

 

I don't see anything obvious about this, bug, tsuba to suggest it isn't genuine.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2634-J-P-sword-Edo-Nice-Insect-design-Daito-Tsuba-/320537741552?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Asian_Antiques&hash=item4aa189c8f0&autorefresh=true

The inlays are quite delicate and neat, as well as complex. Have a close look at that butterfly. It's composed of a copper body shibuichi wings, silver dots on the wings and brass/gold antennae. There are no indications of "as cast" texture and the finish seems perfectly honest to me. Have a look at the details of the overall steel surface, it's actually quite sensitively worked with punches etc.

 

This Umetada signed tsuba also looks genuine to me, although I won't comment on the authenticity of the mei. It is perfectly accurately carved, all crisp, and the inlay details is very cleanly done as is the mei. The clincher for me though is the fine line inside the nakago-ana that shows the steel to have de-laminated. I take this to be clear evidence that the steel was hand made.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320524106610

 

Comparing this genuine Kinai piece with Nick's unfortunate copy it may be possible to see the differences between genuine, original work and cast copies.

 

I don't believe it's matter of making different levels of fake. I think what happens is an original is used to make a rubber mould and the wax impression from that is cast. Occasionally both the original and the copy will appear at around the same time.

 

About 5 years ago I bought a shinsakuto from Aoi-Art which arrived with a very obvious , cast brass copy of a Namban type tsuba. I wasn't particularly bothered by it and simply gave it to my youngest son but I was slightly amused a little later though, to see what appeared to be the original, genuine Namban tsuba for sale in the tsuba section on Aoi-Art.

 

What I've also seen recently is tsuba which are to my eyes very clearly modern ( last 50 years) amateur work but which have NBTHK Hozon papers. I'll be happy to indicate which should anyone be interested but for legal reasons would prefer to do so privately, via pm.

 

If in doubt, ask. I'm always happy to offer any help I can. I may not have time to provide an exhaustive rationale every time and while I would not pretend to be an ultimate authority on tsuba I think I may be able to provide a fairly accurate technical appraisal in most cases.

 

regards,

 

ford

[sanjuro]

When will newbies learn to stay away from the ebay newbie trap? A large percentage of what we are discussing arises because a newbie doesnt know what he has bought or doesnt know what to look for when he does buy. We warn tirelessly against ebay and its inherent dangers. We advocate education over blind purchasing of items that couldnt cut it on a decent dealers inventory, and still they keep trawling ebay for the elusive bloody important cultural property hiding in shabby mounts. They dont exist and if they did, it wouldnt be a newbie that found it among the steaming pile of nihonto offal that appears on ebay. Only the very occasional good purchase is made and you can bet that there are a dozen collectors who have identified it and will bid on it. In the end, the price will exceed the average newbie pocket.

 

The mind set that will not recognise the obvious fact that you need to know what you are doing with ebay items, makes no sense at all to me. For Petes sake! get educated then go to a decent dealer. Generally speaking, cheap stuff is not good, and good stuff is not cheap!

[chuck]

Thanks for the info, Ford. I will have to study these pictures more deeply. Someday, comprehension will set in. Now I'm making mistakes in the other direction, taking real tsubas for fakes, which, while an improvement on the other way 'round, is still not ideal.

 

Yes, the bug tsuba looked real to me too, but I couldn't be sure because I was convinced the Umetada tsuba was a fake. If you compare the Umetada auction pics and the "beat-up" pics, the mei is exactly the same. That sent off warning flags in my head. Also, when I start seeing the same design over and over again, I take that as a sign that there may be fakery involved.

 

How weird is that, to see the original of a fake under discussion come up for bid? Although, I am glad to see that there are some real tsuba out there.

 

When will newbies learn to stay away from the ebay newbie trap? A large percentage of what we are discussing arises because a newbie doesnt know what he has bought or doesnt know what to look for when he does buy. We warn tirelessly against ebay and its inherent dangers. We advocate education over blind purchasing of items that couldnt cut it on a decent dealers inventory, and still they keep trawling ebay for the elusive bloody important cultural property hiding in shabby mounts. They dont exist and if they did, it wouldnt be a newbie that found it among the steaming pile of nihonto offal that appears on ebay. Only the very occasional good purchase is made and you can bet that there are a dozen collectors who have identified it and will bid on it. In the end, the price will exceed the average newbie pocket.

 

The mind set that will not recognise the obvious fact that you need to know what you are doing with ebay items, makes no sense at all to me. For Petes sake! get educated then go to a decent dealer. Generally speaking, cheap stuff is not good, and good stuff is not cheap!

 

...and not everyone has $1000 or even $500 to spend on a tsuba (especially in these times), but they still want something authentic and don't want to get ripped off. If you can't afford what the dealers are offering, where are you going to go? That's why this discussion is proving to be invaluable to me, and, I hope, to others.

 

Being a newbie, I get what you're saying. I also understand, from stories I've read on this forum, that there are experienced collectors that have been fooled by fakes as well, for much more than a couple of hundred dollars. And that there are also unscrupulous dealers who are not on eBay.

 

I'm not advocating for eBay here; obviously its a nest of vipers, BUT if I can reasonably learn to sort the wheat from the chaff with the cheap stuff, I am hoping, when I DO actually have three or four thousand dollars to throw around on a tsuba (Good Lordy! May that day come soon!) it'll be that much harder for me to get fooled by a high-level fake. If a make a $200 mistake now, and I learn from it and understand why it's a mistake, it may help keep me from making a $2000 mistake later.

 

At least that's what I'm telling myself.

 

Much thanks. I am learning a lot here.

 

peace.

[Ford Hallam]

well, Gentlemen I see a way out of this quandary ...just concentrate on those pieces that are made by living artists you can actually talk to :D . ...and in English to boot

[Mark]

Chuck

 

an option, if you are looking for "real" antique tsuba is check out what grey has for sale. They are all nice, reasonably priced. If you check the threads you will see past buyers were more than satisfied. He has plenty under $500

 

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7474

[Brian]

Beware of seeing fakes under every rock folks. It's amusing to see assumptions become fact without any link between them.

If you can't afford tsuba over $200, then save. And then when you have three $200 tsuba, then sell them to buy one good tsuba. Work your way up.

But please, let's be careful not to see fakes everywhere. Listen to Ford and others who know, and take it slowly. Frankly, some of these that were assumed to be fake are quite nice pieces. Remember they worked from pattern books, and many genuine tsuba have multiple examples out there.

 

Brian