real or fake japanese sword

[jeeplover]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... NA:US:1123 ok have seen 2 of theses r they real or fake please help

[drdata]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110520841976&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123 ok have seen 2 of theses r they real or fake please help

 

 

real.

 

As in, really made in china.

 

Utter machine made crap.

 

HTHs

[jeeplover]

i was told it was fake cuz where the sereal numbers r how can u tell

[estcrh]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110520841976&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123 ok have seen 2 of theses r they real or fake please help

If you were planning on buying one of these as a real Japanese ww2 sword then you saved yourself some money. What exactly are you looking for..if anything...and I am sure someone here can help you with finding something authentic and or show you some sites that you can help you learn for yourself if a sword is real or not.

[estcrh]

i was told it was fake cuz where the sereal numbers r how can u tell

The first way you can tell is if the seller is from China or in this case Minsk, Minsk, Belarus??? Never trust someone from Minsk, Minsk, Belarus

[jason_mazzy]

Oh no, not the minsk guy...... He's a chinese reseller. just different location, exact same blades as all the authentic, vintage, antique, hand made, damascus, samurai, Japanese, investment, old blades every other chinese seller advertises.

[moss]

Dear Mr Jeeplover,

100% chinese or nepalese fake.

The numbers are only the beginning of the things wrong.

Just don't touch it unless you like to burn $

Very ugly Faketana at that.

 

Look at link below for tons of info

 

 

http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~t-ohmura/gunto_002.htm

 

Moss

[John A Stuart]

Hi Mr. Jeeplover, Please sign your proper name to your post so that we may address you. Also, try to keep down the leet speak, we are fairly conservative (most anyway ) John

[jeeplover]

i have looked at that site and it has helped little but it also has still left the possiblty open that the sword is real if you did not know where it came from would the opnion have changed the one here in town is identical in every way and they say it is real now i am confused if i had seen hundreds of them being sold from one guy i would say it is fake my self but have only seen the two and if they r fake the shop wants 387 for the one they have dont want to spend that kind of money on fake stuff if i were to have the sword in my hand what could i look for to tell if it is real or fake

[estcrh]

i have looked at that site and it has helped little but it also has still left the possiblty open that the sword is real if you did not know where it came from would the opnion have changed the one here in town is identical in every way and they say it is real now i am confused if i had seen hundreds of them being sold from one guy i would say it is fake my self but have only seen the two and if they r fake the shop wants 387 for the one they have dont want to spend that kind of money on fake stuff if i were to have the sword in my hand what could i look for to tell if it is real or fake

Keith, as for the ebay seller, did you look at his other items? Did you see how many of the same type of swords he was selling, no one has that many of the same kind for sale. Did you see that no one was bidding on his swords, thats a very good clue without knowing anything about swords at all.

 

The shop you mentioned that has a sword for $387...that seems to be very inexpensive, on ebay the real machine made Japanese ww2 swords sell for more then that. Can you take any pictures of the sword in the shop. Without some study it is very hard sometimes to tell what is real and what is fake, I see people all the time buying fake swords on ebay for high prices.

[John A Stuart]

Hi Keith, At the top of the page you will see a link to FAKE SWORDS. It should help. They are getting better, but, still easily detected for the most part. John

[Basho12]

As another newbie it's a subject of interest to me, too. I'm going to go over the things I think are obviously wrong, and it might help someone else in the same boat, especially if the more experienced members can point out where I'm wrong and what I should be looking at:

 

1) As others have mentioned, the Seller. Anything sold out of China or the former Soviet Union is almost certainly a fake. There may be exceptions, but I've never seen one. I've also seen these fakes sold out of the US, too, so nowhere is 100% safe.

 

2) The serial number on the habaki. Several things wrong. First, it's way too high. Also, for an officer's sword there wouldn't have been one. Low number assembly numbers, perhaps, but not a serial number. You only see those on NCO swords. And if this had been an NCO sword, the hilt would have been metal, or painted wood, not real maki, and the serial number would have been stamped on the blade near the mune. There's nothing on this one. Plus I only see that sort of what I call "random kanji" on a fake.

 

3) The blade itself. This is trickier, especially for a beginner like me, but that boshi is mishapen and just ugly. Any competently made Showato blade would look better than that. The rust doesn't tell you anything, except that it all looks new. You'd expect some old rust on a blade 65+ years old.

 

In earlier generation copies the casting on the tsuba and fuchi, etc would have been more rough and ugly, but you have to admit they're getting better. :?

[Mark Green]

Yes, They are getting better. But this sword sure isn't one of those. This is about as obvious a China copy as it gets.

 

Look at where the sword seller is. If you can't tell for sure, it is likely fake. 99% from china are fake.

 

Every once in a blue moon, you will come upon a goobed up old Japenese sword on Ebay that is real. If no one is looking at it, or bidding on it, it is likely crap. Many pros. and guys from this board watch ebay as close as anyone. Most of the old timers, and I would think all the pros., know a REAL Japanese sword at first sight. If it is worth anything at all, there will likely be some bids on it. If it is something a bit more, there will be a big JUMP for it at the last moment.

 

If the seller just doesn't know what they have, sometime it gets listed badly.

The rare gem can still be had on ebay, once in a while, but be prepared to jump with what you can afford, and be ready to spend thousands in restoration costs.

 

There will always be those people that know nothing, and will buy China copies. Thinking they are real Japanese steel.

It is not likely to end any time soon.

 

 

Mark G

[jason_mazzy]

Great advice Mark. You should definately listen to him. he has already helped me grow leaps and bounds in my search for Nihonto. he is a class act guy all the way.

[Brian]

The good news is that after a few years of this, you get this odd instinct where you can scan a list of 100 auctions in a few seconds, and weed out most of the fakes. Those you miss, you spot 2 seconds after viewing the auction. Hard to explain how, all I can say is don't buy..just learn. And if you haven't at least made a plan to look at a number of real swords or even WW2 Gunto...then don't bother even trying. That is the key to everything.

 

Brian

[jeeplover]

the sword in the shop is the same it is just black but from what i have learned it seems like the guy in the shop either dont know what it is or he got burned and is trying to get his money back

[drdata]

. . .

Most of the old timers, and I would think all the pros., know a REAL Japanese sword at first sight. If it is worth anything at all, there will likely be some bids on it. If it is something a bit more, there will be a big JUMP for it at the last moment.

. . .

 

 

Mark G

 

Good advice. You can search for "Japanese sword", and scan down the summary listings until you see one with bids, and a price > 300. Unless you are wanting to see a fake, then stop by all the other ones.

 

Even a machine made gunto goes for 800 + these days on ebay, have seen some as high as $1,600.

 

 

Regards,

[Basho12]

I recently had the pleasure of watching a Jumei Tosho blade with multiple bids go through a big spike at the end. I knew people with deeper pockets were going to fight over it so I wasn't bidding, but it was instructive to watch.

[Weidas]

well, Richard, you should be more accurate when stating about former Soviet Union. My country was one and although i'm currently only buying, it may happen, that i'll want to sell something in future and would hate to be rejected or called fake dealer only because of this sad historical fact

 

however, you were partly right. I saw this guy from "Belarus" and laughed hard and long. Regulations in CIS for handling of any edged weapon, be it hunting knive or dress dagger are very strong. Import / export for person is close to impossible(official way) and nobody does that. So this guy from China should choose more carefully:):)

[drdata]

I recently had the pleasure of watching a Jumei Tosho blade with multiple bids go through a big spike at the end. I knew people with deeper pockets were going to fight over it so I wasn't bidding, but it was instructive to watch.

 

Yes, sadly, the secret of bid sniping is well let out. If its real, and cheap, expect it to nearly double in last 3 seconds.

[John A Stuart]

I would like to say there is just about no country that does not have someone with an account that sells copies and fakes mof Japanese swords, shingunto or otherwise. There is no safe indication by country one way or the other. John

[Basho12]

Vaidas and John are both right, of course, and as I mentioned earlier, I've seen fakes for sale right here in the US, so realistically the country of origin can't be any more than a general guideline. I apologize for painting with too wide a brush.

[Weidas]

no need for that, everybody understands that its like John wrote

[estcrh]

As another newbie it's a subject of interest to me, too. I'm going to go over the things I think are obviously wrong, and it might help someone else in the same boat, especially if the more experienced members can point out where I'm wrong and what I should be looking at:

 

1) As others have mentioned, the Seller. Anything sold out of China or the former Soviet Union is almost certainly a fake. There may be exceptions, but I've never seen one. I've also seen these fakes sold out of the US, too, so nowhere is 100% safe.

 

2) The serial number on the habaki. Several things wrong. First, it's way too high. Also, for an officer's sword there wouldn't have been one. Low number assembly numbers, perhaps, but not a serial number. You only see those on NCO swords. And if this had been an NCO sword, the hilt would have been metal, or painted wood, not real maki, and the serial number would have been stamped on the blade near the mune. There's nothing on this one. Plus I only see that sort of what I call "random kanji" on a fake.

 

3) The blade itself. This is trickier, especially for a beginner like me, but that boshi is mishapen and just ugly. Any competently made Showato blade would look better than that. The rust doesn't tell you anything, except that it all looks new. You'd expect some old rust on a blade 65+ years old.

 

In earlier generation copies the casting on the tsuba and fuchi, etc would have been more rough and ugly, but you have to admit they're getting better. :?

One more thing..the leather combat cover on the sword being discussed..its very hard to fake age on this type of cover, the one shown looks like it was soaked in salt water..I have never seen a real one which even remotely looks like that and I have seen some really worn ones. The other thing you see is the leather sometimes looks brand new with no age appropriate wear.