Muramasa

[Jean]

Jacques,

 

You forgot two of my remarks : the masa kanji and the nakago pattern/form. I don't base my opinion only on the Mei location vis-à-vis the mekugi ana

[Jean]

I forgot after my truffles and the Pinot Noir, of course, a Kodai is not worth this price.

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

 

Parano Jean?

[reikoto]

Dear Member.

 

So a qualified discussion is rare at the Nihonto Message Board.

 

Please consider, the tanto has two NBTHK papers. First of all a Kicho of Showa 45. Year fifth month (May 1970) and the second Tokubetsu Kicho of Showa 45. Year tenth month (October 1970).

I do not think that both shinsa teams ar wrong.

 

来古刀, Ronny.

[reikoto]

Dear Jean! First I wanted to sell the tanto for US$ 1500. But after the answer of Lukas MURAMASA item 110480159569: If I would have the NBTHK or NTHK papers ,I would be selling the blade for $20000 I became greedy .

Ronny

[cisco-san]

Dear Jean! First I wanted to sell the tanto for US$ 1500. But after the answer of Lukas MURAMASA item 110480159569: If I would have the NBTHK or NTHK papers ,I would be selling the blade for $20000 I became greedy .

Ronny

 

I think at the end of the day you will sell it for 1500USD (hopefully)

[Jean]

I would be selling the blade for $20000 I became greedy

 

Good Luck

[Eric H]

Dear Jean! First I wanted to sell the tanto for US$ 1500

really and truly...

Both origami's are beyond doubt valid and I would like to underline once more that the experts of a Shinsa dispose to a veritable greater extent of sources and experience than we Westerners do. The Tokubetsu Kicho origami in particular points to a work by a later generation Muramasa, i.e. the "reikoto Tanto" has definitely no relation to the most famous Nidai Muramasa. Its an interesting Tanto but the asking price has to be adjusted under these circumstances.

Eric

[Jean]

Thanks Eric for having reminded that the posts in this topic was based on the following description:

 

This blade is attributed to the second generation

[doug e lewis]

["]Klaus,

 

 

Dear Jean,

Sorry for my stupide question I read it but am always fascinated of the price of such "items" and I think maybe..... :? - it seems that I am to naive. But you can be sure, I would never buy such expensive item on eBay

 

 

ah, but you can buy expensive "good" stuff on ebay. even if ya do't want to.-- my wife, while i was out walking the dog, bought a used Range Rover. nice car but did not need it; especially after dauhter stressed the engine with reduced oil imput. eventually sold it, face to mechanic face, for a slight 5k loss afer five three year.

 

if i had the $$ i would buy that tanto, and Kevin's, also.

 

doug e

[Jean]

Doug,

 

Just compare Muramasa to Kanemoto, speaking of Ko dai, xxxxx Generation, look at this one and his price probably third generation Kanemoto - Typical sanbonsugi so a trade mark compare to this ko dai Muramasa which does not bear the trademarks indicated by Eric:

 

http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/wakizashi/07559.html - 5154 $ ..............

 

In fact, you will learn with time and experience that the most difficult thing is to know Nihonto pricing.

 

You will see the result at the end of the auction -

[reikoto]

Dear Jean,

On Kanemoto first Generation you will not find typical sanbonsugi! As you and other experienced collecting know, swords do not have always typical trade marks.

Ronny.

[reikoto]

Dear Member,

If I listed a Juyo sword on ebay, it will be pushed down in such a way by the "Experts" and it is doubted everything. A constructional discussion is useful, but a destructive discussion harms. My advice: from objective discussions one can learn, unobjective one disconcerted. Take the contributions of Eric Hugelhofer as example.

Jean, do you think that it is possible to sell under the today's conditions a good sword with ebay?

 

Ronny

[drbvac]

Well I guess this can be discussed but I not sure if this is the place. The opinions expressed I very much doubt unless specific affect the world price of exceptional nihinto and I don't think the intention of NHB is to harm anyones listing cause there are tons that are more liable to cost people money than the ones in question.

 

There are not often very many 20 grand blades on E-bay but there are also not many 1500 dollar ones on AOI, where I have seen 200 thousand dollar swords. You can sell them wherever you want but if I had one worth 20 grand I wouldnt think the buyer who could afford it and knew what they were doing would be looking for this price range on E-bay.

 

The bottom line is buyer beware wherever you look, and the fact is there is much more likely to be nihonto of questionable value on E-bay than some of the other specific Nihonto sites. I don't believe Jean or any other member is trying to devalue any blade - just commenting and like any advise - take it or leave it.

 

Speaking of which, I wish the kissaki and tip did not look so bad in these pics cause there are other things that make this a little interesting. Wonder if a polisher could fix this up?

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT

[Jean]

Jean, do you think that it is possible to sell under the today's conditions a good sword with ebay?

 

If you mean, do you think it is cheaper on e-bay than in a shop, it depends if there is a reserve set by the seller, otherwise yes

[doug e lewis]

this i know, Jean san. but i was in a fantasy, of swords, caused by kitune and tanuki, and of course hairy red haired shojo.

 

i will post my sue-koto, ichikizu katana, mumie, ubu -- a rescue, it was without shirasaya, leaning against a wall. and it cost nothing. my brother's shame and he let me hold it in trust.

 

the tsuba and menuki and other fittings i posted here so time ago. they are late edo, and are intersting in that they match. nice copper habaki. again edo.

 

a tied old bade that has, i think, battle marks [or maybe bushes] one too many polishes, some skin showing.

 

but some one kept it safe for 500 years. a nothing nihonto. yet priceless in its own way.

 

doug e

[Jean]

Doug,

 

It is very difficult to choose and be sure to get the right price.

 

This Muramasa tanto is a fine tanto, the question is it rightly priced? In fact, you alone can decide what it is worth.

 

I am going to show you a bargain - it shows its age - but a signed tanto dating late Kamakura by a top smith ....:

 

http://www.legacyswords.com/fs_ant_daito11.htm

 

Now, is it worth the price - I think so - Try to find end of Kamakura Tanto and look at their price -

 

Now, what would think an expert of this sword, value (Nihontowise) : Tanobe sensei opinion :

[Eric H]

If I listed a Juyo sword on ebay, it will be pushed down in such a way by the "Experts" and it is doubted everything.

This forum was created for the discussion of Genuine Japanese swords and related items. Each member is free to participate in a discussion and to express his own opinion, which can of course differ from other opinions. NOBODY on this Board is an "expert" in the real sense...except you, you cannot accept a fair and objective argumentation on your Tanto, perhaps you think still it's an undiscovered Juyo Token by Nidai Muramasa. You entered in the discussion in the hope to make a promotion for your ebay-auction. My remark for a more reasonable pricing is obviously the motif for your aggressiveness.

 

You confirm explicitly with your own words...First I wanted to sell the tanto for $ 1500...But after...I became greedy...that your Tanto is overpriced.

 

Your statement you were willing to sell the Tanto for $ 1500 previously is hypocritical and untrue. A year ago in December 2008, I have already seen this Tanto on ebay...see the attachments. Well, I go on distance to people who handle the truth carelessly.

Eric

[Jean]

Eric, my friend,

 

I shall never lie on NMB - I swear

[reikoto]

Dear Member,

 

I accept all reasonable opinions. My intention was not to be appeared agressief, sorry. We are all not experts and our contributions are only our opinion.

The reason for the high price and my offer on ebay was the discussion on this forum and the offer and/or the answer of mrhollywood24 “If I would have the NBTHK or NTHK papers ,I would be selling the blade for $20000”. On this way mei offer was provocative like also my offer: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEUSX:IT.

Wat do you think is a realistic value for the tanto.

Is conscious to me, on ebay, only inferior swords are to be sold.

Ronny

[cisco-san]

..... one way could be to get new papers from NBTHK AND give the buyer the "send sword retour" option .....

[reikoto]

Dear Klaus,

Ask all salesman this question and you gets the correct answer.

Ronny

[Jean]

Wat do you think is a realistic value for the tanto.

 

I'll say between 2,5 to 5 k$, depending on the market - meaning people under Muramasa evil charm

[drbvac]

I always say something is worth what you can get for it in a hurry if you need the money. This usually means it will be less than it cost. Seems in my case anything I can't find costs more than I thought and when I sell it I can get half what I paid for it. Thats why there are assessed values, fair market values and insurance values.

[Jean]

It is always true to say that something is worth what you are ready to pay for it, but in this case it is far more easier than with the usual out of polish, full of rust, swords we are used to see on NMB.

 

Have a look at the tanto section on Aoi-Art, you will see that my quotation is not far from market reality.

 

BTW, this does not mean you will find a buyer at that price

[reikoto]

Dear Member,

If you find a papered, signed MURAMASA tanto-regardless which of the 3 generations- in good polish with ubo-nakago one mekugi-ana in shirasaya with saya-gaki and koshirae at the price of 5k$, let me know.

As you all know for art objects also Japanese swords one pays the age, the condition, the name and the paper.

来古刀, Ronny

[Jean]

Ronny,

 

Sell it first and then come back to us and tell us what you got from it.

 

BTW, Ko dai means later generation ==> no Sai jo saku

[Eric H]

I'll say between 2,5 to 5 k$, depending on the market

Jean, my friend,

Your estimation reflects at best the actual situation of the sword-market in particular as well the global financial situation. Hawley lists 5 generations relating to the Shodai and additionally 3 other Muramasa of Ise. An ubu Tanto, 29.7 cm with attribution to Nidai Muramasa, in shirasaya, though with a tateware and a fukura in the hamon, barely visible, was sold accordingly priced some time ago for $ 4,250 by a most reputable sword connoisseur. I want to mention again that blades by Muramasa I and II with removed mei don't suffer by loss in value.

Eric

[Jean]

Thanks Eric.

 

What strikes me most is the Nakago pattern which absolutelly does not match early generations . Whatever the generation, a ko dai is a ko dai and worth a ko dai ...

[reikoto]

More expensive.

http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/sale/09005.html

Ronny