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Muramasa

mattr
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mattr Apprentice

mattr

Posted
Posted

For your consideration, up on ebay:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/MURAMASA-ORIGINAL-A ... 852wt_1165

 

Is this tanto o-suriage? Im interested in the shape of the tang and location of mei (which is tough to make out in the pictures, at least for me) as well as the large mekugi-ana and the way the hamon abruptly ends just past the ha-machi (especially noticeable in one picture).

 

 

Gimei?

 

It seems reasonable that if it is o-suriage that the nakago was reshaped to a 'fish-belly' shape and the mei added around the same time.

 

Just trying to sharpen my skills and eye :D

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Thekirsh Community Regular

Thekirsh

Posted
Posted

Have to agree with you mattr,

 

Looks like an O suriage with mei added later.

 

And, no offence to the seller but would you let a $20,000 blade go for $2500?

I would be sending it to Shinsa if I thought it had the slightest chance.

 

Simon

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Eric H Mentor

Eric H

Posted
Posted

A shoshin Muramasa at a bargain price on ebay?...Forget it once and for all. :roll:

 

Their outstanding Trade Mark is a hamon almost identical on both sides.

 

Pic 1 - the ebay

Pic 2 - left a Muramasa II - right a Muramasa JuTo, Eisho jidai

Pic 3 - oshigata Muramasa II

Pic 4 - mei of the Muramasa JuTo

Pic 5 - from Robert Cole's site

 

Eric

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Eric H Mentor

Eric H

Posted
Posted

Hi John,

Generally speaking, the hamon tempered in an identical layout on both sides is a trait found in common in all Muramasa works regardless of generations.

According to Honami Koson the existing blades of Nidai Muramasa show the greatest excellence. Many Daimyo's and Samurai chose Muramasa blades of "Supreme Sharpness" for their own use.

 

Shodai Muramasa worked in mid-Muromachi times and signed with two characters. Later he was given a temple name "Nyudo Myodai" but never signed his blades this way.

Nidai Muramasa was his son, also called "Sengo Muramasa" and also signed with two characters.

Sandai Muramasa the grandson signed "Seishu Kuwanaju Muramasa".

 

The blades of all three have the general shape of Mino blades except for longer kissaki.

 

Swords by the Muramasa have been considered unlucky, they repeatedly brought evil to the Tokugawa family. Tokugawa Ieyasu decided to destroy all the Muramasa blades in his family. In Kanei jidai - 1625 - an ordinance prohibiting Muramasa blades was issued and anyone caught disobeying it were heavily punished. Takenaka Shigeyoshi, Daimyo of Funai in Bungo Province, who was serving as Judge of Nagasaki City was given the death penalty after it was found that he was keeping not one or two, but 24 Muramasa swords. So the owners of Muramasa blades hastily disposed of them by selling, donating to shrines or altering signatures, to make the blades appear to be by someone else.

 

Nowadays even if the "mei" is removed the value of the blade is not down.

Eric

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Jacques D. Grand Master

Jacques D.

Posted
Posted

Hi,

 

Shodai Muramasa worked in mid-Muromachi times and signed with two characters. Later he was given a temple name "Nyudo Myodai" but never signed his blades this way.

Nidai Muramasa was his son, also called "Sengo Muramasa" and also singed with two characters.

Sandai Muramasa the grandson signed "Seishu Kuwanaju Muramasa".

 

 

According Fujishiro sensei the theory of first and second generation is unclear and shodai Muramasa is "Sengo Muramasa, however Shodai Muramasa nagamei are not uncommon and he signed SEISHÛ KUWANA JÛ FUJIWARA UEMONNOJÔ MURAMASA among others.

 

 

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Kevin Community Regular

Kevin

Posted
Posted
There is also a "masamune" if you look.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT

I think I would do better at the local garage sales.

 

Just because there was one exceptionally famous smith called Masamune, it doesn't mean that there were no other smiths by the same name. Nor does it mean that every blade signed Masamune purports to be made by the very famous smith of that name.

 

Now it would be, to say the least, highly dubious if the listing said that it was made by the famous Masamune. However, it does not say that. On the contrary, it says that the mei is that of a Sue-Mihara smith of the same name and gives Hawley references for folks to look up. According to Hawley, there were five Sue-Mihara smiths using the name 'Masamune'. I haven't checked to see how many smiths throughout Japanese history have been called Masamune.

 

It is always a good idea to read the write-up rather than jumping to conclusions based on the title. After reading the write-up, go away and do your own research.

 

It is my listing, BTW.

 

Kevin

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Kevin Community Regular

Kevin

Posted
Posted
Kevin's reminder is a good one. I hope it hasn't caused you any inconvenience Kevin.

 

Thanks Brian. Not that I'm aware of - but then I wouldn't know if folks assumed that the name Masamune must, of necessity, indicate a scam. :-) Wouldn't mind selling the tanto soon though. :-)

 

There are however bigger hassles if you're a seller. There's the damned scammers, frauds and fakes that get everyone tarred with the same brush. :-( However, the people who do annoy me on Ebay are the ones who message you only to insult you whilst telling you that they have no intention of buying the item in question. I mean - why? What is the point? I had a couple recently. My response to the last one was along the lines of "Thank you for your message. Err, what was the point of telling me that you have no intention of buying and that you are looking elsewhere?"

 

Some folks don't believe in courtesy, apparently. :-( Or perhaps they need to build up their egos. Lack of courtesy ticks me off.

 

And then there are the folks who buy but don't pay or respond to any communications. If they said that they had a problem, we could come to an arrangement, if possible. If they made a mistake, then we could reach an agreement to cancel, which would mean that they wouldn't get an unpaid item strike. But sometimes you just get no response to messages, so you have to go through the unpaid item process, and they get a strike. :-( OK, they could have been run over by a bus, but I've no way of knowing. :-(

 

It is not plain sailing, selling. :-/ Getting a good reputation is everything. Fortunately most of the folk I meet are great - but now and then you get the others.

 

Kevin

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Jean

Jean

Posted
Posted

Klaus,

 

Why don't you read carefully what has been written by Eric H about the characteristics of Muramasa blades and why don't you have a look at the nakago pattern :) Then ask the seller to put to shinsa NBTHK and a full refund + extra cost incurred if Gimei.

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cisco-san Mentor

cisco-san

Posted
Posted
Klaus,

 

Why don't you read carefully what has been written by Eric H about the characteristics of Muramasa blades and why don't you have a look at the nakago pattern :) Then ask the seller to put to shinsa NBTHK and a full refund + extra cost incurred if Gimei.

 

 

Dear Jean,

Sorry for my stupide question :bowdown: I read it but am always fascinated of the price of such "items" and I think maybe..... :? - it seems that I am to naive. But you can be sure, I would never buy such expensive item on eBay 8)

 

Good idea to ask the seller to put to shinsa NBTHK and a full refund + extra cost incurred if Gimei.. :glee:

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Eric H Mentor

Eric H

Posted
Posted
What do you think - is the Mona Lisa real?

What immediately can be seen is the different placement of the mei in the ebay-Muramasa in comparison with the other three shoshin-mei. Furthermore I cannot make out of the papers that points directly to Nidai Muramasa. There is a hint on the Tokubetsu Kicho in (?dai) that suggests a work by a later generation.

Eric

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