Pics of Tanegashima, with descriptions

[Bugyotsuji]

Without stuffing the bandwidth too badly, (for more than one, we could show them together in one pic to start with, for example), would anyone be interested in showing their Tanegashima? Perhaps we could get a body of general knowledge rolling.

 

Presumably people have seen Mr Shigeo Sugawa san's books in Japanese and English, and his website here:

http://www.japaneseweapons.com/index.htm

[John A Stuart]

Hi Piers, It has some nice pics of various matchlocks and gives a quick overview, but, has some minor errors. The section on edged weapons might as well be ignored. Still a little better than nothing. The 'mechanisms' and 'accessories' diagrams are illegible. Some hard work would make it a better resource. I hope NMB here can rustle up more examples. I saw your hayago collection, nice ones. Were there not musket cartridges, the paper twists available? John

[Bugyotsuji]

John, you are correct. Anyone reading this thread and the above link should always remain sceptical. His website and the books need to be taken with a large pinch of salt, but there are nevertheless some good photographs there.

 

Your question about Hayago. Yes, there were some very simple cardboard or even paper twists which could not really be used more than once. As far as I am aware, they were not sold all made up like that as cartridges, (unlike in the West) but probably handmade and handfilled. Until recently I had a couple for the neckstring, but they soon got squashed and crumpled after five or six displays.

[Bazza]

Well, Gentle Folk, I have three Kunitomo matchlock guns of the short, heavy barrelled type with internal locksprings. One has both the gun barrel and stock signed (different makers of course) with all parts numbered 21. The lock has a maker's kokuin inside. Another one has a silver dragon the length of the barrel top. I've also got some hard-to-get literature on Tanegashima (meaning I accidentally stumbled upon an old article in an obscure English journal). I've been "gunner" photograph these for a couple of years now and write them up, so if the moderators are happy to accept a Tanegashima thread I'll get to work on them. It will take me some time as other needs and projects are ahead of them, but I'll get there...

 

Regards,

Barry Thomas.

[Bugyotsuji]

You must be hot in Melbourne right now!

 

I for one, very much look forward to the material when it comes.

[John A Stuart]

I just went back to the aforementioned site and went to the Japanese site. Much more info can be found there. John

[Bugyotsuji]

I just went back to the aforementioned site and went to the Japanese site. Much more info can be found there. John

 

The books are supposed to be a literal translation, but there are many differences. Even in the original Japanese the same earlier provisos about pinches of salt still apply.

[pcfarrar]

What are the reasons why the Japanese used matchlock ignition for so long instead of switching to flint?

[watsonmil]

When the Tokugawa under Ieyasu finally unified Japan, ... Ieyasu began imposing tighter controls over trade with Europeans and especially Christianity. The restrictions continued under the next Tokugawa Shogun until finally in 1635 Japanese citizens were forbidden fom travelling outside Japan. By 1636 even the Portugese who first introduced the Matchlock Gun were restricted to a small island in Nagasaki harbour.

Given that Japan had become a " closed " country, .... the scientific developements of Europe were not well known by most Japanese which of course included not only first the Flintlock, but later the Percussion system of firearms. Also since Japan was free of civil war, and allowed no contact with the outside world (which always temps foreign invasion) there was little need to improve upon firearms. Very few firearms were produced other than a sufficient number to satisfy those naturally lost or destroyed. It was not until Commodore Perry arrived in 1853, that the Japanese were forced to play " catchup ". They then realized that unless they adopted Western technology ( especially in the field of firearms ) that their beloved country might soon fall victim to invasion. The Matchlock immediately disappeared.

..... Ron Watson

[bluelake]

Very interesting, Ron. I believe it was a very similar situation here in Korea. Although Korean royal archives show that friction lock firearms (probably wheellocks) were captured in the 17th century in battles with Russians, there is no evidence that Koreans ever used them. Much like Japan, Korea used matchlocks from the 16th-19th centuries; they only changed to more modern firearms after the 2nd Japanese invasion of 1875-76. Korea was a very closed society in the 19th century, especially due to Western encroachment in the 1860s and 1870s.

 

Korea first obtained matchlocks from Japan in 1589 when they were given as gifts by the governor of Daemado (Tsushima). However, Korea did not have much interest in them at that time. It wasn't until the Japanese invasion of 1592 that the importance of matchlocks was understood. After that point, a lot of R&D went into them, but, until Korea was able to produce its own matchlocks, they trained with and used ones captured from the Japanese. Korea produced its first successful matchlock in 1593. A former Japanese general, who became a naturalized Korean citizen, was instrumental in Korea's development of the firearm. Still, records show that Korea was importing thousands of matchlocks from Japan even into the 1620s, as the quality of the locally produced muskets was not good enough. That changed by the mid to late 17th century after Dutch sailors were stranded in Korea; refinements were made to Korean matchlocks using the technology the Dutch brought with them and Korean-made matchlocks improved greatly in quality, as evidenced by large Chinese orders for them. Matchlock quality became so important that there were severe penalties for producing sub-standard weapons.