NAOTANE AND HIS MEI AND KAO

[Eric H]

Inspired by some remarks in a recent topic

 

It seems to be a generally accepted fact that variations in a swordsmiths "mei" over the course of his career are minimal. There are convincing examples. However, Taikei Naotane, 1778/79-1857, a very skillful swordsmith, Saijo saku, surpassed even his master's Masahide technique. His mei and kao shows over the decades from Kyowa to Ansei, 1801-1857, significant variations in style and strokes.

 

In one of the tables I have placed a gi-mei. Where is it ?

Eric

 

TABLE A (form left to right)

1 - Bunka 7 - 1810 - Naginata

2 - Bunka 8 - 1811 - Katana

3 - Bunsei 5 - 1822 - Katana

 

TABLE B (from left to right)

1 - Bunsei 7 - 1824 - Katana

2 - Bunsei 8 - 1825 - Katana

3 - Bunsei 12 - 1829 - Wakizashi

 

TABLE C (from left to right)

1 - Tempo 7 - 1836 - Katana

2 - Tempo 10 - 1839 - Wakizashi

3 - Tempo 14 - 1843 - Tanto

 

TABLE D (from left to right)

1 - Kaei - 1848 - Tanto

2 - Kaei 2 - 1849 - Tanto

 

TABLE E (from left to right)

1 - Ansei 3 - 1856 - Tanto

2 - Ansei 3 - 1856 - Tanto

[Jean]

Erich

 

For January the 2nd, I find you mischievous :lol: :lol:

[Pete Klein]

I would say E left.

[Mark Green]

I feel that these variations in mei are more common then most experts like to admit.

If you goob up a bit with your chisel, what are you going to do scrub it off? No, you will continue best you can.

 

My guess is is C/2, I don't like the depth of the yasurime.

[Bazza]

Arrrr, geeee, I'll just have a stab at it without going to the books - C3, the rhs mei.

 

Barry Thomas.

[Amon]

How the heck

My guess is the middle one from the B:ones

[ottou812]

E1 or C3 is my guess.

[bluboxer]

I'll go with C2.Thanks for the workout.

 

Alan

[Jean]

I'll go for D2 (Nobody has mentionned it till now :D ) -though probability is that the answer is where three mei are lined up

[David Flynn]

I'll go E2

[Brian]

C3 for me. I hope everyone at least is basing it on something..and not just a guess :lol:

Mine is just a gut feel, not a very good one either. If I have time I'll haul out the books and then at least I'll feel like I made an educated guess

 

Brian

[Amon]

No guessing

But I do think some of the Kanji on B middle looks

strange against others

[Toryu2020]

I'm gonna vote for B3 - but I gotta say after looking at Naotane mei all day I don't know how anybody can see similarities in any of his signatures...

-tom

[Ted Tenold]

My vote would be the Tempo 10 example (C2). I find it the most questionable in rendering and character.

[Shinigami117S]

d1

[george trotter]

Just comparing the meis here, I think E1 is the most different in the cutting of one important stroke .

 

Regards,

George.

[Jean]

Should I deduce from all NMB members' answers that all the examples given are Gimei

[george trotter]

Jean,

the same thought occurred to me...would Eric be so naughty....?

 

George.

[Eric H]

HI Jean and George,

I'm definitely not a naughty boy

 

Until now there is one right answer...another hint

 

Eric

[Aloof Pegasus]

Tane goes off the nakago in C2 so I think it's the gimei.

[ice-hot]

D-2, Strokes look sloppy as does the Yasurime.

But than so does E-2, no D-2 final answer!

 

JohnA

[Ed]

Ok, here's my little stab in the dark along with my rationale.

Viewing only the mei in my humble opinion is a crap shoot. First there are so many variations in Naotane's mei, related to his works spanning over fifty years, that I don't think the experts could be sure looking only at the mei. I think even they would have to see the entire work to be sure, or at least make an educated guess.

 

A couple of examples have hot stamps, and he was known to put them on works from different areas as he traveled about. But for kantei they mean nothing (to me) as anyone could have placed these.

 

The nakagojiri as well as the yasurime looks correct on all examples, best I can see.

 

The one thing that seemed to stand out in all of the oshigata I looked at was the Kao. There were only a few which did not have a Kao engraved. Yes, there were variations in the Kao shape as well, but no matter the small nuances in shape or style, the one thing I noticed was that regardless of his age the Kao always appears very refined, easily flowing from his hand.

 

Now to the examples show in this little test.

There are only three examples without Kao, "C" left and the two in table "D".

Both examples in table "D" look poorly executed with the one on the right being the worst looking mei of the entire group. The example in "C" while not cut great, is signed as done when he was eighty something years old, so could be just one of the many variations seen.

 

Moving on tho the Kao.

The Kao in table "B" center photo right off gave me a bad gut feeling, but it is too small in the photo for me to see well enough to say yes or no. However, I do have my doubts regarding it.

The rest for the most part look well cut with the exception of one, table"C" far right. The kao on this one is the worst looking one of any I have seen. It shows areas where the chisel literally went astray a couple of times, and just does not show the integrity or have the feel of a masters work. While it is dated as being done when he was sixty five, there are much better examples from when he was much older.

 

My choices were formed omitting table "B" center photo due to not being able to see it clearly,

leaving me two choices. Again both examples in table "D" look poorly cut but the one on the far right being the worst(I'll be surprised if it is shoshin), and table"C" far right.

 

First choice: Table "D" far right, just a gut feeling, looks so poorly done.

Second choice: Table "C" far right, based solely on the Kao.

 

Ok, curious now to see how far off I am.

[Eric H]

Hi Ed,

 

All I want to say at present...very well and thoroughly analyzed. BTW he died aged 79

 

Eric

[Ed]

Eric,

Found a mistake or two in my own post.

 

There are only three examples without Kao, "C" left and the two in table "D".

Should have read "E" left and the two in table "D".

 

The example in "C" while not cut great, is signed as done when he was eighty something years old, so could be just one of the many variations seen.

This should have said "E" left photo. That top right kanji looks to be hachi (. I clearly read and knew he died at age 79, but was concentrating so hard on the mei themselves, smooth let that slip by(I suffer from sometimer's disease, somtimes I remember sh*t, and sometime's I don't ). In reminding me of that you may have given it away.

 

I will stick with my answers even though I every time I look at them I want to reverse their order. :D

[Eric H]

but I gotta say after looking at Naotane mei all day I don't know how anybody can see similarities in any of his signatures...

Hi All,

Thanks for the answers. So different Naotane's mei vary, so great are the variations in the outcome on the search after the "black sheep". Obviously it wasn't an easy task...too many confusing strokes. Well, the gimei is identified by:

 

John Amon

 

it's in Table B -2- Bunsei 8 - 1825

 

Eric

[george trotter]

Well done John!

Thanks for the exercise Eric...At least I'm maintaining my 100% average (100% wrong, 100% of the time!). BTW, any comment on the "80" in E1?

Regards,

George.

[Toryu2020]

Eric -

Thanks so much for posting this, a thoroughly enjoyable exercise.

-tom

 

Kajihei?

[Jean]

Thanks Eric, but now you owe us an explanation why is it the gimei? :D :D

[Amon]

Thanks Eric,

 

Best wishes

[John A Stuart]

当たり John