world war 2 sword

[Carohn]

Hi I'am Carohn and I would like to know somethimg more about my sword.

What does the caracters mean and is it a sword that was made during world war 2 or is it older?

If have put some photo,s on this topic as well:

,

[Rich S]

To me the characters are meaningless, I suspect it is a modern,

well aged Chinese fake.

 

Rich S

[John A Stuart]

It is sad when people find something that interests them and get preyed upon by fakers, ruining their first experience and perhaps turning them away from such a rich hobby. The sword above is such and a poor attempt at that. Carohn, I hope you can forget this and learn something about the subject before buying your next sword. Click on 'Fake Swords' at the top of the page. Don't fret there are thousands who have had this experience and persevered to enjoy the hobby subsequently. good luck, John

[Brian]

Yep, it is a fake. No doubt at all I'm afraid.

 

Brian

[loiner1965]

glad he posted pics as he has now learned a valuable lesson and any future purchases he may ask first before buying....glad brian opened this military section

[Simmons001]

Definite Fake

 

Its a shame, and i agree with all the above comments

 

The fakes are getting better and better nowadays. Below is a chinese blade in near perfect Kai Gunto mounts on ebay. So good, i was wondering if perhaps they had placed a fake blade in real Kai Gunto mounts. It shows just how good the fakes are getting. (Tskua wrap is the obvious giveaway, but the casting of the mounts is pretty damn good IMHO) Or perhaps its just my declining eyesight. :D

 

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Japanese-OFFICER ... 0381252210

 

Anyone want to confirm my random thoughts re old mounts?

 

Chin up, chalk this up to experience and don't be afraid to ask questions. My interest in gunto was kicked off by speaking with people from this site and they helped me buy my first good blade.

 

Cheers All

 

Mark S

[Jean]

Look a the Kissaki for the tell-tale

[Guido]

You guys haven't seen "the new generation" of fakes - I guess the only reason they don't show on eBay yet is that they are too expensive for bargain hunters.

 

I went to the Panjiayuan area a couple of weeks ago - lots of antique shops there ("antique" as in "made last week") - and was surprised to see quite a few Japanese swords, Edo period mountings as well as Guntô. The mounts were impressive, great detail and occasionally even Jabara-maki wraps, all in pristine condition - *too* pristine for my taste. The blades, however, gave them away as fakes, although they were pretty well forged, on the same level as, let's say, Paul Chen's Hanwei swords.

 

It's obvious that all swords were 1:1 copies of original swords, and very good quality originals at that. Some had the sword in Shirasaya with horn fittings. Prices were set accordingly, $,$$$ and even higher. At the first shop I almost fell for a beautiful Tantô-Koshirae with Tsunagi and great Soroi-Kanagu - until I saw the very same item at two other shops! Upon closer inspection I realized the metal wasn't Shibuichi (maybe antiqued silver), and looking into the Saya revealed new wood. Other than that, the highest quality fake I ever saw, on par with contemporary Japanese custom Koshirae. I'm willing to bet that almost nobody - including myself - would identify them as fakes if posted here, especially if the photos were a tad out of focus.

 

I didn't bring a camera, but will do so next time (however, I'm leaving on a two week business trip the day after tomorrow), and hope they let me take pictures. I guess I have to come up with a cover story ("a friend abroad is interested but needs pictures"), or doing kind of a candid camera stunt. In any case, the mind boggles, and I'm actually quite impressed. They even managed to copy bluray discs now, saw the first shipment arrive the day before yesterday - and bought one for scientific purposes . Believe me, you're not able to tell the difference (except that the cover is an obvious photocopy, but even that on good, glossy paper). The whole package for US $ 2.80 ...

[Brian]

 

Wow. I guess it was only a matter of time. At least the pricing and labor involved will keep them out of the "bargain basement" for now. Good thing we have our spy over there :lol:

 

Brian

[Jean]

Good thing we have our spy over there :lol:

 

Guido, be carefull, remember Richard Sorge

[Bazza]

Definite Fake

 

SNIP

 

The fakes are getting better and better nowadays. Below is a chinese blade in near perfect Kai Gunto mounts on ebay. So good, i was wondering if perhaps they had placed a fake blade in real Kai Gunto mounts. It shows just how good the fakes are getting. (Tskua wrap is the obvious giveaway, but the casting of the mounts is pretty damn good IMHO) Or perhaps its just my declining eyesight. :D

 

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Japanese-OFFICER ... 0381252210

 

Anyone want to confirm my random thoughts re old mounts?

SNIP

Mark S

I'm sure that an in-hand inspection would confirm the mounts to be modern copies for anyone familiar with the real thing. In this case the "kaigunto" is actually a Shingunto copy I think... Guido's report gives real cause for concern for anyone not yet "up to speed" on the real thing. Therefore for anyone reading this thread the extreme exhortation is to buy books before swords and see as many of the real thing in museums and collectors' hands before even thinking of buying a sword. Increasingly, all collecting Japanese swords seems to be costing some people is grief and money. For anyone faintly serious about collecting Nihonto as a lifelong interest, they would be infinitely better off by visiting Japan... The cost can truly be classed as "paying your dues" and may, in fact, save far more money in the future. Remember, at even a reasonable level of quality the costs are very high, let alone high quality items.

 

Best regards,

Barry Thomas.

[Guido]

Therefore for anyone reading this thread the extreme exhortation is to buy books before swords and see as many of the real thing in museums and collectors' hands before even thinking of buying a sword. (snip) For anyone faintly serious about collecting Nihonto as a lifelong interest, they would be infinitely better off by visiting Japan... The cost can truly be classed as "paying your dues" and may, in fact, save far more money in the future. Remember, at even a reasonable level of quality the costs are very high, let alone high quality items.

"Amen" to that, Barry! One of the main problems is that newcomers to Nihontô think all the info they need is out there on the internet. Partially that's true, and there *are* some shortcuts, saving a lot of time (but also missing quite some fun) we old farts spent learning stuff "the hard way". The new fakes are the proverbial litmus test, and I'm afraid those without first-hand experience in appreciating high quality Nihontô will pay dearly ...

[loiner1965]

Therefore for anyone reading this thread the extreme exhortation is to buy books before swords and see as many of the real thing in museums and collectors' hands before even thinking of buying a sword. (snip) For anyone faintly serious about collecting Nihonto as a lifelong interest, they would be infinitely better off by visiting Japan... The cost can truly be classed as "paying your dues" and may, in fact, save far more money in the future. Remember, at even a reasonable level of quality the costs are very high, let alone high quality items.

"Amen" to that, Barry! One of the main problems is that newcomers to Nihontô think all the info they need is out there on the internet. Partially that's true, and there *are* some shortcuts, saving a lot of time (but also missing quite some fun) we old farts spent learning stuff "the hard way". The new fakes are the proverbial litmus test, and I'm afraid those without first-hand experience in appreciating high quality Nihontô will pay dearly ...

personally i do not think reading as many books will prepare you for the new fakes as experience like guido has as to be learnt in the field so to speak....you need to handle and study swords as much as possible and have hands on tuition to be fully prepared...this is something books cannot teach you.

i admire and respect collectors like guido who has spent years of learning the arts and i am thankful that he offers his time for free to helping others like myself....quite of lot of guys on here are really helpful too and i am humbled to them so to speak

[Simmons001]

I'm sure that an in-hand inspection would confirm the mounts to be modern copies for anyone familiar with the real thing. In this case the "kaigunto" is actually a Shingunto copy I think

 

Oh absolutely. Yes, shin-gunto copy. Just was listed as kai-gunto, so that's how i referred to it. As you say an in hand inspection would show its a fake as long as you had some knowledge of the subject. Just noting new traps for us novice gunto-philes.

 

As for the rest, all have said it far better than i could. Learn learn learn, read read read, ask ask ask.

 

I just hope a bad experience hasn't burnt the fingers too badly.

[YukouYukimura]

eBay has become a trash market anyway. Any reputable sellers/dealers are advised to leave eBay as soon as humanly possible.

 

 

Also ditch paypal, visit http://www.paypalsucks.com If you use paypal.

 

 

This thread is a perfect example of the crap eBay WANTS on their website for sale. 2000 pages, 200 listings per page of fake swords coming from China.