Help on Tsuba

[Ronin 47]

Hi, could anyone give me some info on this tsuba. Thanks

[Ronin 47]

Hold on, I can't seem to get the pics to load.

[Ronin 47]

Try this http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tsuba3vi2.png

[Ronin 47]

Pic 2 http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tsuba4de9.png

[Nobody]

Try this http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tsuba3vi2.png

The mei seems to be Sekienshi Masachika (石燕子 昌親), though I am unsure about the reading.

[Ludolf Richter]

It's (the famous) Hamano artist of the Tsuchiya-family,who often used Masachika (here with Sekienshi),normally followed by "6th generation" (Kanji or Kao),although he called himself Yasuchika 6th generation:Haynes

Y 11109.He worked for the Daimyo of Dewa and died in 1861.Some authors make him Yasuchika 5th generation because his father is said to have used the Yasuchika name first when he was more then 60 years old,i.e.after his son.I don't know whether the character behind chika does mean 6th gen.Ludolf

[Ronin 47]

Thanks for the Help guys. And Ludolf when you say famous, how famous, for instance if he was a swordsmith, who would he most be comparable to, in level of fame. Sorry Im not really a fittings guy. Ps. I will try to post pics of the rest of the fittings later. Thanks again. Austin

[Ludolf Richter]

To become the personal fitting artist of a Daimyo one had to be very good.I believe his ranking at that time would have been around the No.10 of all the fitting artists.The very best had been employed by the "big" one Daimyos (Tokugawa clan,Satsuma,etc.).Ludolf

[Ronin 47]

Nobody and Ludolf, thanks again for the info.

Austin

[Curran]

That is an interesing tsuba. Given the style of workmanship, I was surprised by the signature. Given the name, I would have thought something more along the Hamano style.

 

I've attached photos of what I believe is an authentic Yasuchika 6th. I have not papered it yet. Just been told by one of the shinsa judges that it is correct. Still need to see if the other judges agree! It is dated to 1853 (or 1856- I forget). I believe Mr. Nobody helped me translate it as commissioned by or for a Mr. Tamiya.

 

Ludolf or Mr. Nobody, what guide or text do you use for the "ranking" of kodogu makers. I purchased several tsuba from estates/small-museums in the past few. Some of them have been bigger names. I have no idea how to value them for insurance. For instance, what is an unsigned Otsuki school tsuba worth? Several have been papered in Japan. I will paper the rest next year.

[Gaijin]

Nice tsuba :D

 

I have similar design fuchi kashira set, i am not sure if i got mei right, if anyone can help reading it would be nice

[Nobody]

I have similar design fuchi kashira set, i am not sure if i got mei right, if anyone can help reading it would be nice

Hi,

The mei may be Naonori (直徳). But I am unsure about the correct reading, because those kanji have many other readings for one's name.

[Nobody]

Ludolf or Mr. Nobody, what guide or text do you use for the "ranking" of kodogu makers.

Hi Curran,

My interest is almost in blades and I know nothing about kodogu. I can only read mei sometimes.

[Gaijin]

Thank you Nobody.

[Brian]

Koichi Moriyama

 

 

Brian

[Curran]

Ludolph?

 

Do you know of a Japanese valuation/price guide to the various kodogu makers? One of our former fellow NMB list members had such a guide, but he is now long since gone.

 

Mr. Nobody (Moriyama-san), may I please ask what are your schools of interests within collecting swords? I've been interested in mostly Oei period blades of the Yamashiro and Bizen tradition, but occassionally strayed into Soshu tanto and O-tanto.

[Nobody]

Mr. Nobody (Moriyama-san), may I please ask what are your schools of interests within collecting swords? I've been interested in mostly Oei period blades of the Yamashiro and Bizen tradition, but occassionally strayed into Soshu tanto and O-tanto.

Hi Curran,

As I am a beginner, I have only a few swords. I like Bizen tradition most, but I am not so particular about sword traditions. I like the shape of swords rather than hada or hamon. And I also like to feel the hundreds of years of history behind old swords.

[Ludolf Richter]

for Brian:I had to log in seven times till I could place my reply!

Hi Curran,I believe there is no ranking sytem for tosogu artists in existance.If one has papers that attribute his Tsuba (etc.) to a well known and esteemed master,than he is lucky and will probably achieve good results.There may be differences due to the various motives.Auction results are showing a tendency to higher prices for soft-metal pieces,especially from masters of the 19th Century.It is selfevident that,for example,a Heian or Onin Tsuba,which normally is not faultless,shall be degraded.Some collectors prefer pieces from the metal (iron vs.soft metal or vice versa) or from certain schools or Sukashi vs.other ones.Although I have a nice (an valuable) Kozuka from the 2nd Umetada master I prefer 3 Tsuba,made of iron (2 Ko-Tosho,a 3rd one with high relief carvings,signed by Yanagawa Naoharu).I am wondering why so many Tsuba without Mei or papers are achieving such high prices,if only they are showing a nice ("sweet") picture/motive,regardless whether they are made by a famous master or not!Ludolf

PS.I started as a sword collectors and I am know an "overall" Nihonto fan

[Gaijin]

I am sorry Moriyama-san , i didn't notice there is a name in the signature.

Thank you again.

[Nobody]

I am sorry Moriyama-san , i didn't notice there is a name in the signature.

Thank you again.

Hi,

I do not mind by which name I am called. Please do not bother about my name.

[Curran]

Ludolph,

 

Thank you for the reply. I was under the impression there was a modern guide to price or value, similar to those books available for swords (and coins, etc...). I do not have access to many auction catalogs.

 

For instance, I have no idea what value to assign the 6th Gen Yasuchika tsuba I posted.

[John A Stuart]

I have wondered the same thing on occasion. For example a few years ago I bought a tsuba for about $400US and just this month I have bought one I believe by the same maker of a common theme, similar quality and metalwork, but this was $800US. Now I paid it because I had an interest in it, but which was the real price? Did I get a great deal originally or have I paid too much this time? Of course desire determines price, what? John

[Gaijin]

Hi John!

 

Did you bought them on auction or fixed price ??? and do we get to see them

[John A Stuart]

Hi Gaijin, They were fixed prices from dealers. Mito Shoami pieces. I will post them side by side for comments on some of their aspects as soon as I research the new one more. John

[Pete Klein]

John -- the 'real' price is $600. You have bought two equivalents at different prices so add them together then divide by two = $600 each. Just like buying a stock. Real worth=$0. Possible worth= what someone will pay. Why real worth $0? None of this has any real value. It has no utilitarian use and is of negligible trading value against, say, food which has real value, as does land upon which you raise the food, clothes, and other basic necessities.

 

Now, the reason there are no valuation guides in this field is that there are too many variables and not enough volume of sales to be able to do the analysis. Look at a numismatics guide to get a feel for it. All sorts of dealers with lots of sales and standardized categorization of quality. I would be willing to bet that any one of the larger coin dealers in one year does more turnover than all of the fittings sales in that same year world wide. Just postulating here but I hope you can see where I'm going with this. From my experience the only way to get a feel for this or any market is to watch -- constantly -- dealer sites and catalogs, auction sites (Japanese primarily and to a much lesser extent Ebay), communicate with other collectors, and go to shows and see what is available, prices requested and if there is turnover or stagnation. From all of this you will get a feel for it much the same way as a dealer, but remember even they make mistakes. Collectibles are fickle in value as it is easy for there to be market saturation and loss of interest in specific categories.

 

In any collectibles market there is supply vs. demand modified by quality and dealer/specialist intervention. Leo Castelli was a great example of a art dealer who worked in New York and for years basically setting the market in pictorial artwork by advising what was important and not important. His clientele followed his advice and today the valuation on many pieces is the result of the resulting group of collectors and their progeny who feel this or that is worth so much based on the earlier sales x appreciation xor/ social acceptance coefficient. It's worth what it is because a group has decided and to join the group you pay the price. There is no rule book outside of this. How much is a Kanayama tsuba worth? A couple years ago more than today bucause many felt that they were 'the ultimate expression of the tsuba makers art'. Today -- ???. Bottom line is that if you like the piece and know why you like it (that's important) then so what? If you're looking for investments look elsewhere unless you are willing to do many hours of research and take many risks. Look --it's a tough field. But a lot of fun!

 

IMEO. (LOL)!

[John A Stuart]

Hi Pete, Your dead on the spot there. If I considered what I have collected, in all fields as an investment I would be a poor investor, pun intended. I really enjoy it and like researching the background history. Guides like the guides for numismatologists and philatelologists would be great but like you say not enough custom. Although eBay makes me wonder sometimes. Funny old hobby this. John