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my first katana


45blues

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Hello Guys, after dealing with some more newbie mistakes and throwing $$'s for expensive tsunagis, i've finally got lucky enough to own my first "decent" Nihonto.

Mei reads "Sakakura Gonoshin Terukane". a Big name as you know, it also has NBTHK Tokubetsu Kicho certs(1967). so i strongly believe that i've found O-wazamono!!

-One Bad joke. :badgrin:

 

anyways, i just love this beautiful work of forging art (IMHO), i still think this sword is too good for a Newbie.

when everytime i draw this sword out of shirasaya, i always try not to shake my hand...

i'm also thinking of sending this sword back to Japan and resubmit the Nbthk shinsa, i don't really expect such a fantastic shinsa result as shoshin,

but i'm sure that would be a good experience for me.

 

Thanks for looking, any comments would be appreciated.

CJ

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so i strongly believe that i've found O-wazamono!!
Terukane isn't listed among the Wazamono, but that just may mean his swords were never tested.
i'm also thinking of sending this sword back to Japan and resubmit the Nbthk shinsa' date=' i don't really expect such a fantastic shinsa result as shoshin, ...[/quote']What makes you think it might be Gimei? It already got papers, is Ubu-Zaimei, and if it's flawless and of outstanding quality (which I can't make out from the pics), it might get Tokubetsu Hozon, thus increasing its resale value - if that's what you're looking for.
i still think this sword is too good for a Newbie.
You know that you are *inviting* people to write "true, sent it to me"? ;)
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so i strongly believe that i've found O-wazamono!!
Terukane isn't listed among the Wazamono, but that just may mean his swords were never tested

 

Hi, unless my sleepy eyes betray me, looking up Terukane in AFU's Fujishiro translations he is rated Jo Jo saku as well as O-wazamono.

Agree with Guido that of what little can be seen in the image, the quality of the steel looks promising. And, wisdom of sending it off to Japan for shinsa requires careful consideration.

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okay, i just took some quick pics, those are lookin just a bit better than horrible.. :(

it actually looks blueish grey under the sunlight in person, i've also seen some gold color during LED light inspection.

i can't see any flaws, kizu's at all, minor scuffs and surface oxidations that is.

it's very fat-so much of Niku- heavy sword.

 

 

 

CJ

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thanks for all the comments, gents :)

Mr. Guido Schiller, i would like to believe that this one is very nice Gimei until i get the new paper.

May be i feel kinda bit defensive to talk about Mei because of my lack of knowledge.

i read some articles about submitting NBTHK shinsa, i do agree that it would need careful consideration.

at this point, i just want to know that who made this beautiful thing and how old is my new buddy, that's all for now.

of course i would gladly wait for few month or more, i think that's the right thing for me to do next. oh yes, now i'm lurking for some nice fittings.. :roll:

i'd really like to say thanks again to all NMB members and Admins.. with NMB board search, i don't even need a TV, maybe ten times better than google... :thanks:

 

regards,

CJ

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Hi Mark G, my answer to your question is pretty simple: i just love this blade very much so i want to know everything about this one.

i just heard some opinions that some old origami's are not that reliable. even the dealer who hooked me up said the exactly same thing.

guys, please don't get me wrong. as a matter of fact, i know barely nothing about this sword which i fell in love, some of you gents here has "educated" eyes, but i only have the eyes of steel addict. :lol:

also i have to mention that this blade gives me a fairly amount of joy-o-life. it looks so fabulous that it could take away almost every stress comming from my job or real life. i think that would be enough excuse for to get this guy a decent birth certificate. :)

 

CJ

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IMHO you're not likely to gain much more information from resubmission; the only really good reason at this point to resubmit would be if you were convinced it could reach Tokubetsu Hozon, and the only really good reason for that would be to increase its resale value or just drape yourself in the cuddly warm blanket that it's "officially" excellent. Do yourself a favor and enjoy the blade as-is without worrying about papers. If your motivation is to learn more about your sword, then learn more about swords in general and do some research yourself. Worrying about the authenticity of your current origami seems paranoid to me; "some old papers are unreliable" is a truism that doesn't deserve the time, hassle, and money to prove correct when there is no good reason to doubt *these particular* papers.

 

But I suppose that's just my opinion; you are free of course to do what makes you happy. Congrats on what looks like a very nice blade,

-GLL

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so i strongly believe that i've found O-wazamono!!
Terukane isn't listed among the Wazamono, but that just may mean his swords were never tested
Hi, unless my sleepy eyes betray me, looking up Terukane in AFU's Fujishiro translations he is rated Jo Jo saku as well as O-wazamono.
That's odd, no other book - and especially not the original Kokon Kaji Bikō 古今鍛冶備考 - lists him as Wazamono (Ô or otherwise).
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nihonto translations seem to have a way of creating uncertainty on occasion
It's not a translation error, the Japanese version also ranks him as Ôwazamono.

 

I think the confusion has to do with the (still not conlusively solved) discussion whether or not he should be considered the Nidai Kanesada who indeed was ranked Ôwazamono. But still, Yamada Asaemon Yoshimutsu doesn't list Terukane as Wazamono, and "he's the man!" ... :D

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Hi Jacques, i've been thinking just like that, that's why i told a joke about o-wazamono in original thread.. :glee:

to be perfectly honest with you guys, i'm just extremely happy for what i've paid.

whatever the mei or origami says, i got this healthy blade (with some "potential" extra cool features) with very limited budget- could't be happier. :laughabove:

...and may be i just want to get the 2009 origami which has my name on it... ;)

 

regards,

CJ

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Sakakura Gennoshin Terukane and Echigo no kami Kanesada ... are the same person, ...
Aren't you getting a little ahead of yourself there? The vote of the "experts" is still out. But even *if* they are one and the same, you can't simply ignore the Kokon Kaji Bikô's rating: no rating is no rating -period!
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Just to get the history of this smith correct. The shodai Echigo Kanesada had a student he eventually adopted who signed with the same mei. When the shodai died and his natural born son inherited the name Echigo Kanesada the hitherto nidai relinquished the name to the son and adopted Terukane as his name. Is this debated? When the natural son aquired his fathers name he was the sandai Echigo Kanesada, right? Name changes always seem to muddy the waters. John

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Just to throw a possibility in the works here. Reading through this page: http://www.samuraisword.com/nihontodisp ... /index.htm and others...

A KATANA WAS DISCOVERED (AT THE TIME (PRE-WAR) HE WAS WRITING HIS BOOKS) THAT IS INSCRIBED “SAKAKURA GEN-NO-SHIN TERUKANE” ON THE OMOTE SIDE, AND “ARATAME, ECHIGO NO KAMI, KANESADA” ON THE URA SIDE (ARATAME MEANS: BEFORE / CHANGED). THIS CLEARLY CAN BE INTERPRETED AS MEANING HE CHANGED HIS NAME, FROM KANESADA II, TO “TERUKANE”, AND IMPLEMENTED SOME CHANGES IN HIS STYLE OF KITAE (CONSTRUCTION). FROM THAT TIME FORWARD HE WAS NOT KNOWN AS KANESADA II.

 

Is it not possible that when he worked as Kanesada, his style of kitae led to him being rated as o-wazamono, however when he changed the name, and subsequently his working style and kitae, his swords were not rated as o-wazamono anymore? That would explain the differences in ratings. Maybe the earlier works had better cutting ability than the later works? Just a feeble theory.

 

Brian

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Hi,

 

Quote Fujishiro Shinto Jiten

 

TERUKANE SAKAKURA GENNOSHIN [ENPÔ 1673 SETTSU] SHINTÔ JÔJÔSAKU

He was a pupil of shodai Kanesada and later became his adopted son and inherited the name of Kanesada. He also followed suit with Echigo no Kami and signed Echigo no Kami Kanesada. However, due to the fact that one was not allowed to succeed to an official title without permission, in Enpô Hachinen (1680) Nigatsu he changed to Sakakura Gennoshin Terukane. Lately, there was a katana seen without an ura mei, it is thought that this was made around Enpô Hachinen. "SAKAKURA GENNOSHIN TERUKANE" could be seen on the omote, and "ECHIGO NO KAMI KANESADA" on the ura, and this is thought to prove that this is an actual fact. His works have a ji of ko-moku, hamon is notare midareba, suguba, sugu gonome ashi iri nado. Those with the mei of Kanesada have a gonome choji like that of the shodai. (Ôwazamono)

Signatures: ECHIGO NO KAMI KANESADA

SAKAKURA GENNOSHIN TERUKANE

SAKAKURA GENNOSHIN TERUKANE, ARATAME ECHIGO NO KAMI KANESADA

[TN]

SAKAKURA GENNOSHIN TERUKANE, ECHIGO NO KAMI KANESADA DÔ SAKU KORE

 

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Hi,

 

I think when Yamada Asaemon Yoshitoshi did cutting tests on these blades and wrote his book in 1815, he didn't have a blade signed Terukane at his disposal, so he could not rank him.

 

When the book was written Terukane/kanesada was pushing up the daisies since some decades :lol:

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  • 9 years later...

NINE YEARS LATER

 

At the risk of being quite annoying, I am resurrecting this old thread. It's funny how time can change a person's attitude, if I had an apparent Terukane with only old papers now I would very likely send it for modern papers, as high as I can get. I wonder if CJ ever did so?

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NINE YEARS LATER

 

At the risk of being quite annoying, I am resurrecting this old thread. It's funny how time can change a person's attitude, if I had an apparent Terukane with only old papers now I would very likely send it for modern papers, as high as I can get. I wonder if CJ ever did so?

And how funny this Old Geezer "liked" a post that was 9 years old because he didn't look at the date!!!  Just goes to show how "fresh" some of our discussions still are...

 

BaZZa.

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This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one, unless your post is really relevant and adds to the topic..

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