Help identifying sword

[MarcoUdin]

Hopefully I'm in the correct place. I recently acquired a sword for about 300$ and believe it to be a Kai-Gunto. If somebody could direct me to it's authenticity or any relevant information I would be very appreciative. I typically collect firearms and was presented this and though it was appealing so I jumped on it. I tried to take the best pictures possible and did not find any form of marks or signatures on the tang. Let me know if more specific pictures are needed.

 

Marc D

[Dave R]

 It looks righteous, and indeed a good example of the type. Congratulations. Unusual to see a chuso (retention clip)on a Navy sword so I look forward to seeing the comments from those more knowledgeable.

[16k]

Your blade was made in Seki. Nice example with a same saya and unusual chuso as Dave pointed out. Congrats!

 

EDIT: to the real specialists: the presence of that chuso and the (apparently) absence of stamp. Could this be a pre1937 blade?

[MarcoUdin]

Thank you very much for the prompt responses.

 

I acquired this from an elderly woman who said her husband brought it back after WWII and kept it in the safe ever since. It also had capture documents but did not want to give me them as well, as she claimed it had her late husband's information on it. I respected her wishes, she did mention he served on the U.S.S. Chester. I blindly purchased this for 300$ without knowing the authenticity or value. And I may just have initiated another expensive hobby (unfortunately for my wife).

 

I did want to mention that the entire blade feels as if it has a thin layer of cosmoline or similar. Should I attempt to wipe it down with something? Also any recommendations on how I should store, just in the safes with my guns and a dehumidifier?

 

I also wouldn't mind writing it down on my renter's insurance while my house is being built if anybody has a ball park value.

 

Marc D

[16k]

Lots of questions here!

 

First, $300 was a hell of a deal!

 

It needs further inspection for flaws or what type of blade it is, but if you check eBay, Kai gunto usually go for about plus or minus $2000-2500. So that’s a very rough ballpark.

 

If it is a Gendaito (but I doubt that), I may go for more but in order to determine this, you need to post pictures of the blade naked, without Habaki, in its entirety and with close ups of the nakago and the Hamon. As I said, your blade was made in Seki. They produced many sort of blades from cut out blades to partially forged to rust resistant (often used in the navy) to fully traditional forging. The price will vary accordingly.

 

Cosmoline was frequently used by G.I.s when they brought back blades. I can be cleaned. I’ve never encountered it myself but heard it can be cleaned with oil. You’ll find a care and maintenance guide here:

 

http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/faq.html

[Bruce Pennington]

Your blade was made in Seki. Nice example with a same saya and unusual chuso as Dave pointed out. Congrats!

 

EDIT: to the real specialists: the presence of that chuso and the (apparently) absence of stamp. Could this be a pre1937 blade?

JP, just curious how you determine it's a Seki blade. I'm pretty uneducated on that stuff. It's hard to say about the date/non-stamp. It may simply not have a stamp because it's traditionally made. But to your point, stamps didn't become the norm until 1940, so, if it's not traditionally made, then lacking the stamp puts it 1940 or earlier.

 

Marc,

Officially called a Type 97, Kai-gunto. I'd say the owner paid some extra money on this with the shark-skin saya covering, the chuso, and that custom seppa. I can't tell from your picture if the blade is traditionally made or not, but it does have a beautiful hamon!

Other guys may know more on the "feather pattern" on the nakago (file marks on tang), but they are not very common on military blades in my limited experience.

Gunto prices have been falling the last couple years. Today, these go from $1,200 to $2,400 depending on condition and the buyer's interest. Yours has expensive upgrades, but the gold-gilding is mostly gone, so I'd put it around $1,400 +/- .

[16k]

Bruce, most of the time, Seki swordsmiths used a takanoha pattern on the nakago, so chances are great it was made in Seki following the Mino tradition.

 

Moreover, there are togari in the Hamon, also typical of the Mino tradition.

 

But I’m no expert and could be wrong.

[Grey Doffin]

I think alcohol (rubbing, denatured) and a soft cloth will work to remove the cosmoline and won't damage the sword.  As there is more cosmoline inside the scabbard you will have to remove it more than just once but eventually the blade will come out clean.

Grey

[ChrisW]

I've had experience with old Russian cosmoline on my M44 Mosin Carbine; bought it straight from the Tula arsenal crate it was packed in. Nasty stuff to clean off and it takes time to remove it entirely but it is doable!

[MarcoUdin]

I tried my very best here, the lighting makes it difficult.

 

I also seem to have noticed some lettering on the inside of the tsuka. It also seemed like there was something inside the habaki but the angle is terrible and it's not very deep. I hope the hampn is noticeable as the glare makes it difficult to take pictures of.

 

Thank you to everybody who has replied, sorry for the wait the habaki took about 30 minutes to take off.

 

Marc

[PNSSHOGUN]

Kai Gunto with Seki-To seem to have a Chuso retention system more so than any other blade type. The standard method was the thin retention cord that is ubiquitous in period photos but oddly enough rarely found extant on swords today. Whether soldiers in the field discarded them, G.I's discarded them or they simply fell apart and were lost is hard to say, but they were the official retention system for Kai Gunto.

[Bruce Pennington]

Good to know John!

 

JP, you nailed it on Seki - tiny inspection stamp on the nakago mune:

[ChrisW]

The lettering on the inside of the tsuka is probably part of the set of assembly numbers used in the factory to track what parts went together.